*** New Combos ***

Armitaage wrote:Lol, you beat me to the post, I did them a little while ago but didn't post cuz it's a pain to arrange the data when posting from my phone, lol, and I was nowhere near my computer.

Sorry mate, saw the chance to give some useful information and I took it. Relatively new to this game and forum so thought I would help give back hehe.

Lol, it's ok, I don't mind. Saves me the trouble. Thank you for doing this in my place, lol.

well I'm glad my form gets a little bit of a rarity & species bonus now.
But I wish they had been a little "newer" than variations on existing things.
Oh well I'll use them!

(and I suppose there's still the chance of finding a natural x6 or x7 combo!)

Ologolos wrote:(and I suppose there's still the chance of finding a natural x6 or x7 combo!)

Well without the fixed species requirement, it should be easier to put together the BP combo, though I'm not sure it would be possible with Winged also (for the x6). The skill combo is pretty dumb, so I wouldn't expect to see a viable x7 combo team.

well, updated my calc to work with the new combos, enjoy everyone. btw, bbr, check pm.

Damn, I was hoping fir something more than this. All this does is make mixed wing that much more powerfull

not entirely because mix wing would lose out on at least 10% atk and def in exchange for 5% health and maybe 5% accuracy. if you go for mix species AND mix rarity, you would lose out on another 10% atk and def in exchange for up to 10% accuracy and up to 20% dodge. overall, it doesn't actually make mix wing that much overpowered. it's bigger impact is in making mix species of any sort more viable, and is frankly raising the value of all agi monsters and the higher bp health up, ipd, ipa, dea, and ded AA/+ and higher monsters, which is always a good thing. this is a lot more than just getting a female, boob, ass, etc combos, which are highly specific to one small group and would devalue even more cards than wing is devaluing right now.

on the subject of winged monsters being ridiculously overpowered, this has no longer been true since relica came out, as we are now able to target winged monsters with relica effects.

What i meant was, if you already had a mixed winged form, this makes it even better. Personally, there are enough people with demon or brute down20 that i'd prefer not using a species combo. And before anyone asks about my sig formation, my other one is mixed wing and it is way easier to battle with that one

These combos are wreaking havok on my bot code... um.. i mean... *cough* "I bet these combos would wreak havok on a bot code."

j/k

I think winged AA will become more desirable after this change since Rarity and species combo are pretty easy to get

I'm surprised these combos are almost what I wanted - partial combos that get stronger as you build into them.

One thing that certainly has me curious... does this make a dodge team even more viable? You can get a straight up 20% dodge bonus on top of 5 dodge skills and potentially end up with the world's most obnoxious team ever!

I think I will try this during the second half of Forgotten Island on one of my accounts for the lols.

Also, regarding these changes + wings - yeah, this makes wings even better since it will be even easier to build into a winged team. Covert Dragons, for instance, can now be a thing, with a 5th winged monster of any type.

Armitaage wrote:not entirely because mix wing would lose out on at least 10% atk and def in exchange for 5% health and maybe 5% accuracy. if you go for mix species AND mix rarity, you would lose out on another 10% atk and def in exchange for up to 10% accuracy and up to 20% dodge. overall, it doesn't actually make mix wing that much overpowered. it's bigger impact is in making mix species of any sort more viable, and is frankly raising the value of all agi monsters and the higher bp health up, ipd, ipa, dea, and ded AA/+ and higher monsters, which is always a good thing. this is a lot more than just getting a female, boob, ass, etc combos, which are highly specific to one small group and would devalue even more cards than wing is devaluing right now.

on the subject of winged monsters being ridiculously overpowered, this has no longer been true since relica came out, as we are now able to target winged monsters with relica effects.

If you go mix wing you don't lose 10% atk since the winged combo gives you 15% atk. 5x combo Mix Wing (winged, guild, rarity, level, 4-1 or 3-2 species) only loses 10% def compared to 4x combo full Species (guild, rarity, level, species) but gains 5% atk, 5% hp and possibly 5% acc. I trade any day 10% def for 5% atk and 5% hp, really. Of course if you can build a 5x combo winged full species it is better, but currently mix wing is top class, above full species not winged in terms of stats, and possibly skills (Klamut and Ash will be even more valuable, as well as Sabis, to speak about what I know for my guild).

Can't say I agree with you on your assertion, hecaton. Here's some base data:
Form 1:
Axes+, Primula+, Sara+, Consumer+, Finis+
Leader: Axes+
118168 atk
104116 def
93792 hp
194 bp

Form 2:
Lyra+, Racio+, Abyss+, Quay+, Amiyala+
Leader: Lyra+
113353 atk
106991 def
90953 hp
195 bp

Form 1 is a full species 4x combo Impulse undead, form 2 is a 4-1 5x combo Psycho winged demons. As you can see, for similar bp usage the 4x full species has better stats than the 5x 4-1 species.

Armitaage wrote:
Form 2:
Lyra+, Racio+, Abyss+, Quay+, Amiyala+

Quay loses the guild achievement boost. Were he sin, I'd imagine the ATK and HP numbers would be much closer, and the DEF is already higher.

Quay, despite losing said bonus has higher stats than either taroth or hurricane demon, the only other two winged demons that keep Psycho combo that I'm aware of.

bacsiha wrote:I think winged AA will become more desirable after this change since Rarity and species combo are pretty easy to get

Just what I was thinking. I am thinking the only usefull and viability of these new combos are for AA wyrm teams and people making the transition to AA teams so hybrids will get a little extra boost.

Armitaage wrote:Form 2:
Lyra+, Racio+, Abyss+, Quay+, Amiyala+
Leader: Lyra+
113353 atk
106991 def
90953 hp
195 bp

form 2 is a 4-1 5x combo Psycho winged demons.

Amiyala isn't a demon.

steve, do re-read the post. didn't it strike you as odd that i called it a 4-1 5x combo winged demons? there's a simple reason for that, it's that not every monster is a demon. besides, the POINT of my post was to show that pure species forms are still superior to mix species winged forms.

for the record, i chose to call it a demon form, even though amiyala isn't a demon(i know full well that she's a brute, remember who you're nitpicking on) since the majority of the team IS demon. it's certainly a lot simpler than calling it a 4-1 Demon-Brute team. triply so when you're posting from a smartphone which is anything but comfortable for posting lengthy posts. I already have a very low opinion of the quality of your posts which seldom have anything constructive to offer, don't make me start ignoring you completely.

I suppose the new species combos are kind of nice. It gives more validity to mixed species formations built around specific skills and high bp. All in all; at top levels of competition 5xspecies will still "take the cake" so to speak; but I guess these combo changes open up possibilities for low-mid level formation flexibility (for the purposes of frame of reference; a top competitive form would be skillchanged psy winged brutes, mid would be something like high bp winged wyrms, low would be the old psy creation team (Urth x 2, Hall, Nyar, Devoid) base skills), or the cheaper version of sin brutes.

Now you really can just chunk the highest bp monsters you've got lying around together in a formation, slap on a couple skill changes, and get at least some combo benefits for your trouble; which I would say will kill the value of some older "low bp" (well whatever is considered low bp now; I believe the norm for competitive is something like 40+ per monster) monsters that were used to round out species combos.

anyways, I'm a bit disappointed they didn't do guild combos like species combos.

The additional rarity combos don't seem very useful... I don't know of any effective use of more than two rarities in a single formation (AAA/AA, and AA/A are pretty valid, but I don't see how mixing beyond that would be useful)

Armitaage wrote:Can't say I agree with you on your assertion, hecaton. Here's some base data:
Form 1:
Axes+, Primula+, Sara+, Consumer+, Finis+
Leader: Axes+
118168 atk
104116 def
93792 hp
194 bp

Form 2:
Lyra+, Racio+, Abyss+, Quay+, Amiyala+
Leader: Lyra+
113353 atk
106991 def
90953 hp
195 bp

Form 1 is a full species 4x combo Impulse undead, form 2 is a 4-1 5x combo Psycho winged demons. As you can see, for similar bp usage the 4x full species has better stats than the 5x 4-1 species.

Are you comparing an impulse team to a psycho team ? Did you build both teams on an impulse account ?
Besides, I pick Form 2 all day:
Form 1 skills: PHP Brute down Psycho down DED Health up
Form 2 skills: DED IPD DED (?) DEA Health up
Shall I highlight the fact that Form 2 stats are higher (IPD !) than Form 1 due to skills ? No really, you just proved that mix winged is effectively better than full species. And please don't say that you can skill change Form 1, price and demand of a specific monster doesn't take that into account. Otherwise Axes would be very valuable. Also you could have put Purple Shade instead of Abyss

Overall its a question of value; winged monsters can only get better because on the long run, you have more and more chance to get a winged monster of that specific species to fill the gap of the 5x perfect team.

So I run

Allades , Illiatirah, Tlon+, Griz+ and GGD+: beast, brute, brute, demon, wyrm.

I'm getting the 3-2 rarity bonus. Is there a reason I'm not getting the 2-1-1-1 species bonus? I've taken the team out and reset it in, but still not getting it. Any thoughts?

Because you have 1-2-1-1 species, not 2-1-1-1. Your leader needs to be part of the 2.

Oh, jesus. Ok, thank you.



Edit: I think JaguarPaw tried to explain that to me, but I didn't understand it.

I haven't seen anyone post yet, but if you use all 5 of the free 16 bp cartoon guys you get a samurai combo +5% hp ,+5% dodge ,+5% accuracy