Psycho Underworld Scamming Issue.

I didn't read this post.

Just have niko sell it for 500+ ep in the auction house. Problem solved.

Although the main issue originally was whether or not Psycho Underworld is a 'scam clan', I think this at least solves Niko's problems

If AH doesn't work, try Jingleheimer? I see he's begun using AA+ psycho winged brutes in his A+ psycho winged brute formation, maybe he might want it?

tl;dr;dc

good lord people take this game seriously

also they added new emoticons lol


either that, or I've just noticed that they've added new emoticons

@xanndal

As per usual, you've skimmed my post, and thrown a bunch of philosophical terms which aren't black and white, at a very specific, small scale situation. Unfortunately, you have a very one dimensional view of the world. You can't use philosophy, one of the most open to debate topics and state that my arguments are logical fallacies etc.

I also thoroughly enjoyed how you neglected to answer the last part of my post. I get the feeling you're getting tired of just restating your same opinion rather then responding to what I'm actually saying.

I'll restate my point. What is ethical to one person, its not necessarily ethical to another. People have different standards of ethics. THIS IS A FACT. Also, sitting on either end of the table, it is not difficult to find ethical faults on both sides. Just because this situation violates your ethical standards does not make those ethical standards universal.

to paraphrase Nietzche

"he who argues with provocateurs over the internet about inane trivialities should look to it that he himself does not become an internet provocateur of inane trivialities"

Ian, I totally agree with you in terms of your argument, but give it a rest. you're not going to talk him down, you can rebut, and he will repeat until this thread is 100 pages long.

just let him have the last word, and he'll go away

be "the bigger man"

the only way this kind of muckraking ends is when it loses popularity, and the sole source of popularity is making an inflammatory statement to illicit responses. If you don't respond, they can't continue.

this is no different than the "FREE SOUL POINTS HERE!" threads, just let it sink to the bottom with 0 responses.

larry378 wrote:to paraphrase Nietzche

"he who argues with provocateurs over the internet about inane trivialities should look to it that he himself does not become an internet provocateur of inane trivialities"

Ian, I totally agree with you in terms of your argument, but give it a rest. you're not going to talk him down, you can rebut, and he will repeat until this thread is 100 pages long.

just let him have the last word, and he'll go away

be "the bigger man"

the only way this kind of muckraking ends is when it loses popularity, and the sole source of popularity is making an inflammatory statement to illicit responses. If you don't respond, they can't continue.

this is no different than the "FREE SOUL POINTS HERE!" threads, just let it sink to the bottom with 0 responses.

Message well received. I think Xan got under my skin. Nonetheless, going to be dropping it. All is well

This post is gonna be completely off-topic since it's to directly answer others discussion that is off-topic.

Ian5565 wrote:@xanndal
As per usual, you've skimmed my post, and thrown a bunch of philosophical terms which aren't black and white, at a very specific, small scale situation. Unfortunately, you have a very one dimensional view of the world. You can't use philosophy, one of the most open to debate topics and state that my arguments are logical fallacies etc.

That is a irrelevant conclusion and sweeping generalization type of logical fallacy. And to be nice I'll tell you what it is. That is basically coming to a conclusion from a completely irrelevant point and then generalize it to multiple situations.

Direct example in logical flow chart.
1. Xanndal skimmed the EULA and apologized for skimming.
|
v
2. Therefore, Xanndal skims everything related to Ian5565.

"As per usual, you've skimmed my post" directly quoted from you so I doubt I need to explain. That is a very illogical extrapolation. The worst part is, this is your assumption that you continue your entire argument off of.

Ian5565 wrote:
I also thoroughly enjoyed how you neglected to answer the last part of my post. I get the feeling you're getting tired of just restating your same opinion rather then responding to what I'm actually saying.

I'll restate my point. What is ethical to one person, its not necessarily ethical to another. People have different standards of ethics. THIS IS A FACT. Also, sitting on either end of the table, it is not difficult to find ethical faults on both sides. Just because this situation violates your ethical standards does not make those ethical standards universal.

Reason I refused to answer your previous post is because you've ceased to use logic and proceeded to use discussion that is illogical and rhetorical. In many cases your arguments involve rhetorical traps and arguments by assertion. Proposing asserted assumptions to be correct without ever providing evidence thereof it and then proceed to arguing with these assumptions as if they were on proven grounds. Basically to sum it up in layman's term. You've started talking about things that are and will be from now til eternity discussed with no one ever coming to a answer. Most times arguing by assertion is downright offensive and disrespectful.

My argument is presented in the format of argument by definition. A very logical and valid method to present a argument. Yet your argument is in the format of argument of definition, which is a rhetorical argument that is endless and also extremely subjective. Once you've made a argument of definition you proceed to argue by assertion when I have not agreed to your definition. You cannot use arguments of definition, at least in the sense of validity, in a argument if the other party did not agree to it or come to the same conclusion. It's also disrespectful. Also I know I wasn't very nice in my singular post before, but that's in part due to how you've been answering questions with a lot of assumptions and using pathos arguments - especially appeal by emotion - as if they were logical. I just find it lacking for discussion when someone has such a conservative view.

Also you're forgetting that I openingly accepted your statements a few times in my previous posts and accepted times where I made mistakes, which demonstrates open mindedness. You however, has disagreed with all logical presented arguments and retorted with rhetorics and illogical statements.


Don't be angered or annoyed or in anyway disturbed by my statements. This is a peaceful discussion and not any form of confrontation. A strategy I use in discussion to avoid letting the other people's post reduce my rationality is when they state things like "You're stupid, this is completely irrelevant, You're dumb" etc. is to simply analyze the argument logically and then ignore parts that are just personal attacks with no merit, no logic, or no intent for discussion purpose. Then present statements of refutation with evidence against it if it was illogical or accept it if it was logical. Also it is not in my intention to be offensive, but since I am using a argumentive style similar to Socratic method it often becomes misinterpreted as offensive. A proposed reason why Socrates was killed with historical backing.

Hope this last paragraph will help you keep rational and level headed in future discussions. This is not a discussion with simply philosophy it's logic. Logic happens to be part of philosophy that we as humans developed after centuries of discussion. Logic is used to argue if a point stated in philosophy is valid or conditionally acceptable and not just speculative.

Ian5565 wrote:
In this game, fraud in my opinion is represented by a violation of the ToS. As far as I know, this transaction did not violate the ToS and therefore no fraud took place.

I should let this thread die but I take too much issue with this statement to let it rest. The most common scam in this game that is acknowledge by the majority of the DS community as a scam is cataloging via trade or gift and running away with the item. It does not in any way violate ToS but is nevertheless a scam imho and the opinion of the majority of the DS community.

Kyan
Kyan's Store

That's basically his entire argument. He redefined what it means to scam, cheat, and commit fraud and ran with it. His other arguments involve a lot of speculation of possibilities and direct attack of political position. His other arguments does not address ethics, definitions, and the probably most important one that he is trying to refute. Whether or not Psycho Underworld scammed and is my presented argument actually valid. He practically just skipped even trying to falsify my statement and said he's right and I am wrong and that I have no right to define a word that is pinnacle in this discussion. I don't need to define a word, its already well defined. Ian5565's misinterpretation should not be the final say of this argument.

I will write a summary of the previous pages some time... maybe on sunday.

lmao...

i stopped reading this thread after 2 pages and seeing it was turning into a "who-can-sound-smarter-and-use-bigger-words" match.

if you just stop and think about it, it is what it is. some are calling it a scam, some not. think about when you were in grade school, yeah, and you and your buds were on the playground. im sure almost everyone can think of an instance where they ran this same con on some poor sap for his lunch money or candy or whatever the fuck lol. i know i did when i was a young punk.

i think many are getting so indelved with all these legal blah blah yadda yadda they are missing it. its a con. everyones ran it in thier life and been run on by it. if you deny it your full of shit lol

as for if the entire guild is trash for it, idk, i know i dont care for this guild. and not for this, but cause the insane pompus ego ive seen from the members. putting your bank on first page in auction with ep and 4 AAs and saying its your clan bank only and others will be farmed lmao. lame