2x combo 4AA+ formation advice (ipd or agi for fifth A member?)

So, basically I'm making the transition from A-form to AA/A hybrid form

I've got 4 AA+ winged wyrms (*well, technically 2 AA+ wyrms, and 2x 2AAs of two others which I need to get around to evolving (but since I've been leveling them, it'll cost about 1.1m to evolve both [500k+600k] ). My intial plan was to go for a 3xAA+/2A+ form, backing up my big guys with MLD and Lindwurm (thus providing ipd/agi). But now that I have the framework to field a 4AA team, I'm going to try modify my plans to go for that.

So, I guess my question is, should the 5th member of my team be Lind or MLD? (since I don't have DOD on team for IPD).

I understand that agi is less important for AAs than for As, and that pure AA forms don't use agility. However, since I'm hybriding, I think the agility edge in combination with AAs would give me an advantage against A formations (which are the vast majority of people I fight), since I wouldn't even need maxed agility to attack and defend against maxed agility teams (due to AA priority in attack order, AND with ~15 agi).

On the other hand, the form I have in mind is a decidedly heavy defense formation; and with 7.6k defense AND ipd, MLD is a damage absorbing brick among As who seldom goes down in a single hit, and the skill is certainly something I want for my form, not to mention he's a winged wyrm which is perfect.

So... anybody have any advice?
I already have MLD/Lind both +m with mid level skills sitting in my
formation and inventory respectively, so It's practically zero cost
difference between going either direction (well, agi stacks are marginally more
expensive than ipd stacks I suppose, but I would have to max ipd, but
don't need to max agi, so it evens out)

bump.

come on people, surely someone must know... since the first post, I've evolved all of my AAs, and aside from leveling them, I need to start working on skilling up the 5th member, I need some idea of who I should be working on (Lind or MLD)

My opinion is that most players with AA+'s aren't using agility, so you'll usually get to go first even without the lindwurm, so I'd go with the MLD

ryesteve wrote:My opinion is that most players with AA+'s aren't using agility, so you'll usually get to go first even without the lindwurm, so I'd go with the MLD

The thing is, using my current A team with Agility, I have several people on the rankings who I "make rounds on" and attack regularly (consistent honor point gain and whatnot), and quite a few of those are 2-3x AA teams (I'm not entirely sure about particular monster levels, and if all of them are plussed), and my agility A team goes first...

I guess I don't want to become "one of those people", who will end up being targeted regularly for honor point gain (to that end, I've also entered a 'holding pattern' just outside of the rankings, because I'll bet as soon as I get into 900-1000, the attacks are going to POUR in (so I'm planning on finishing up my AA team before I cross that threshold.

Is there any information about the PRECISE interaction of agility and AA attack prioritization?

e.g. something like

attacking adds an agi value of 2 + n, n>0, but tending to zero

so an 18 agi A team attacking a 20 agi A team goes first

Maybe AA+ status adds an agi value of say 7+n

so a 13 agi hybrid AA team attacking a 20 agi A team lets all the AAs go first, but the agi monster on the attacking team goes after the other team's counterattack

BUT, a 10 agi hybrid AA team attacking a 20 agi A team goes second

Obviously, these are just figures I made up on the spot, but is there any documentation about this?



I guess the question is what is the minimum amount of agility needed to back up an AA+ to take attack priority over an A monster backed by 20agi? (in the hypothetical example, that level is 15(for defensive first strike,13 for offensive) Wondering if any data is available.

There's nothing documented; the best you'll find is people with theories. In one of my formations I'm running 3 AA+ and 2 A+ with no agility, and unless the other person has agi20, my AA+s go first. But honestly, it doesn't really matter, since my team is so amped up defensively, I don't need to go first (or second, or third).

I ran moonsea max(20), gorger max(20), banished max, mld+max(20), and Lindwurm+ max(20). fighting full demon teams with dcc or pit with (20) agility my 3 AA's would go and then, depending on who i killed, there guys would go. Using moonsea+, banished+, gorger+, Kanna+, and Venus+ the 3 "real" wyrms still go first, against the same teams

It would help if you tell us what are the other AA+ you are planning to run and their skills. As synergy of skills in very important for AA+ teams.

As for agility. No hard evidence but from experience attacking receive a ~+2% boost. AA+ base agility is 34 and A+ base is typically 30 with rare exception of 31. AA is 32. So you can calculate exactly how much agility is needed as the skill is a percentage boost. An agility of 10 in an A+ formation is faster than AA+ on attack against AA+ team with no agility.

Personally I have experimented with both agility with marbas+m20 and maxed defense with dsd+m20 when I was making the same transition and it didn't seem to make too much of a difference. I use DSD if I'm attacking a team with no agility and marbas when it does. On defense, its about the same with either but than my 4AA+ at that time was maxed and have max or near max skills. That is more important. The stat on the A+ is unimportant as it will die before attacking. Its just purely a skill boost but than I was attacking full or nearly full AA+ team at that time. If your team has good defensive skills with -atk20, guild down 20 than defense works really well but since you are running a wyrm team you don't have that I would say that agility will be better in most situation. You don't even need to level is anymore if its at 15 as an A+ team with max agility can't catch up even on offense.

To be honest, getting your AA+ evolve and level is far more important than this decision. If you're going to spend ep to buy skills you might as well spend it on gold and get those guys max level. It will do more for your team than the A+.

As for your concerned of getting attacked in the top 1000 ranking. i wouldn't worry about it. You are unlikely to get attack alot until you are in the top50 or 100. Just don't leave gold around. If words gets out that you're rich, you get slam by an entire guild at once. If people want to farm honor there are alot of team still in the top ranking that have quit as well as very weak teams.

Good luck,
Kyan

DevilJin6Six6 wrote:I ran moonsea max(20), gorger max(20), banished max, mld+max(20), and Lindwurm+ max(20). fighting full demon teams with dcc or pit with (20) agility my 3 AA's would go and then, depending on who i killed, there guys would go. Using moonsea+, banished+, gorger+, Kanna+, and Venus+ the 3 "real" wyrms still go first, against the same teams

The second part of that can't be true. In a pure AA+ team with no agility against an A+ team with agility(20). They go first.

Kyan

kyan wrote:

DevilJin6Six6 wrote:I ran moonsea max(20), gorger max(20), banished max, mld+max(20), and Lindwurm+ max(20). fighting full demon teams with dcc or pit with (20) agility my 3 AA's would go and then, depending on who i killed, there guys would go. Using moonsea+, banished+, gorger+, Kanna+, and Venus+ the 3 "real" wyrms still go first, against the same teams

The second part of that can't be true. In a pure AA+ team with no agility against an A+ team with agility(20). They go first.

Kyan

Maybe I wasnt paying as close attention and i misread what skill had what level, regardless, the naturally higher defense of the AA would be better suited with increased defensive percentage.

kyan wrote: If words gets out that you're rich, you get slam by an entire guild at once.

hehe, funny that you should mention that. I attacked #103 in the rankings this morning (one of the people I make rounds on, mainly since I can actually attack him, while the 'battle' button doesn't appear for many people in the rankings bizzarely) 640k, immediately told my clan. The last attack report was 200k, so I think he got cleaned out pretty hard

15 agi sounds good! I think I'll mainly be fighting A-teams with this particular AA combo, and am quite interested in a defensively effective team for when I'm on the rankings.

One of the main reasons I'm actually doing this at all is because I noticed some time ago that by attacking people on rankings regualarly, I was getting closer and closer to being there. And since I generally avoided attacking AA teams in favor of A teams, I figured that if I had an little AA monster next to my name and honor, fewer folks would attack me; consequently, this is a pretty low budget impromptu AA team omni Kanna(dea spirit), venus, terra, neptune, and lind (all+, unfortunately, all the AA+s are between lvl 1 and 20 atm) which I mainly assembled since I had most of the components lying around, and find it aesthetically pleasing (I also thought briefly about doing a kanna/dru/vlad/taroth/marbas team, since I've had all of those at some point, but decided against it since it looks silly, although it would have better stats, but absolutely no combos)

incidentally, what is the best way to max AA+s? I've got a fair amount of gold banked, and what I do with the sac fodder I get is I sell all the <5 (or <10 during events) ones to the store and sac all the 5+/10+ ones to my monsters. That's what has worked so far for A monsters. I suppose when there is a lul between events, or the next 'bp-heavy' event, I'll hit death mountains 4 for tons and tons of fodder:energy return.
Should I be buying souls? I've considered doing that, but I think the amount of individual transactions required to do that would be unfortunately complicated. If there were some way to do that in bulk, I'd be on it, but the problem is the vast majority of soul sellers I find have less than 5 souls

larry378 wrote:

kyan wrote: If words gets out that you're rich, you get slam by an entire guild at once.

hehe, funny that you should mention that. I attacked #103 in the rankings this morning (one of the people I make rounds on, mainly since I can actually attack him, while the 'battle' button doesn't appear for many people in the rankings bizzarely) 640k, immediately told my clan. The last attack report was 200k, so I think he got cleaned out pretty hard

if you're visible. that happens.

larry378 wrote:
15 agi sounds good! I think I'll mainly be fighting A-teams with this particular AA combo, and am quite interested in a defensively effective team for when I'm on the rankings.

One of the main reasons I'm actually doing this at all is because I noticed some time ago that by attacking people on rankings regualarly, I was getting closer and closer to being there. And since I generally avoided attacking AA teams in favor of A teams, I figured that if I had an little AA monster next to my name and honor, fewer folks would attack me; consequently, this is a pretty low budget impromptu AA team omni Kanna(dea spirit), venus, terra, neptune, and lind (all+, unfortunately, all the AA+s are between lvl 1 and 20 atm) which I mainly assembled since I had most of the components lying around, and find it aesthetically pleasing (I also thought briefly about doing a kanna/dru/vlad/taroth/marbas team, since I've had all of those at some point, but decided against it since it looks silly, although it would have better stats, but absolutely no combos)

maybe maybe not. Depends on your level. On my low level account. I actually go after people that have a AA or better formation as I figure they tend to have more gold. If people are looking in the ranking for farm, they know enough to know what the hard hitters are. Not sure if your AA team with just one skill is enough to deter them.

larry378 wrote:
incidentally, what is the best way to max AA+s? I've got a fair amount of gold banked, and what I do with the sac fodder I get is I sell all the <5 (or <10 during events) ones to the store and sac all the 5+/10+ ones to my monsters. That's what has worked so far for A monsters. I suppose when there is a lul between events, or the next 'bp-heavy' event, I'll hit death mountains 4 for tons and tons of fodder:energy return.
Should I be buying souls? I've considered doing that, but I think the amount of individual transactions required to do that would be unfortunately complicated. If there were some way to do that in bulk, I'd be on it, but the problem is the vast majority of soul sellers I find have less than 5 souls

There is no good answer to this. The math for how much it cost to level and the effect of bp on level gain is worked out and posted somewhere on here. Roughly 10 monsters gets you 2 level+.1(total bp of sac). The cost increase is linear and total about 2.5mil to get from 1 to 150 if you don't use souls.

Souls are highly popular. I sold a few recently as I have too many pages of them at 5:2 ep. There were selling like hotcakes and I'm sure I can easily sell at 2:1. Depending on how much gold cost that might or might not be worth it. Probably not but than using about 40 wisdom B. I went from 100 to 150 and save almost a million in gold.

Kyan