critical up

Hey guys. This has probably been asked before but Icant find it, or I'm blind.

Critical up, does it affect just the one monster casting it, or all? If just the one, then why don't people use crit up spirits and agility?

Yes, it affects just the monster casting it. As to why we don't use crit up spirits, it's that crit rate increase is only really useful at max skill, when you have almost a 1-in-2 chance to crit. Until then, the odds of actually critting are quite low. That said, IPA is a much better way to increase damage output than crit. As to why we don't use agility spirits, it's cuz agility spirits don't exist, and for good reason too. Imagine a 4 combo Rank AA+ team with agility. That is what people will use agility spirits to make, lol.


Ps: I may have misunderstood the agi part of the question; if so, please forgive me.

Yeah you misunderstood the agi question. And my question there would be why not make, for example:

Agi, IPA, crit, crit, crit?

It's not hard to get skill 20 in crit. For me, anyways.

Lol, I would not recommend agi, IPA, crit, crit, crit. The most crit permissible in a damage oriented team is 2 monsters. Any self respecting dd team should have agi, IPA, and DED, minimum. Additionally, guild downs increase damage output even more and are more reliable than depending on crit, since all those skills are passive, and don't depend on chance to activate. But minimum is agi, IPA, and DED, lol

Hmm. My current team that I'm trying to train up:

Bayard
High knight beast
Simian
Beast soul knight
Gusion

So I have HP, impulse and psycho downs, enemy defence down, and agility.

My current idea:

Replace HKB with labyrinith minotaur, then slap a lower attack spirit on him. (It's the only onei have)

The more chance your monsters sirvive the first or second hits, the more your odds of winning imo. I have a tanking mindset heh.

Lol, in this game tanking IS dd, lol. Yes, agi, IPA, DED, IPD, and DEA are a great way to make your team nearly untouchable, lol. But if you're running agi, tanking is moot; just take advantage of hitting first and finish them off asap. You don't take damage from a dead monster, lol. From what I have been able to find out, A+ teams are dd oriented, AA/+ teams are tank oriented, lol.

Well the main reason for that as far as I can see is because AA teams have the odds in their favor to actually survive hits. They don't usually have to cope with low HP.

However, working with the skills I do have right now and the fact I won't be seeing a decent AA in a long time, I have to figure out what to do.

My current team is a 114 point team, with minotaur it rises to 121. And impulse/psycho downs seem to be too conditional. Ie, if a psycho team hits me, I have one skill wasted. If an impulse, same thing. If a sin plays covert, BOTH are wasted.

Thus why I try to make sure all five monsters have skills that definitely are used.

If you can propose a better team than what I have now, please do let me know. I have Centaurus sitting on standby since he's low BP and kind of pointless with BSK.

Lol, I can understand that one. If that's the case, agi, IPA, DED, IPD, and DEA are the way to go, lol. The idea with down skills, even though they're conditional, is to stack -def on your opponent. Both down skills will activate regardless of the opponent you're fighting but, depending on the monsters that they're using, one or more of them will not actually have any effect, lol. Still, if you don't trust downs, use IPD and DEA, lol.

I myself don't have much experience with beasts, certainly not rancor, so I can't say which monsters you should choose, but I strongly recommend that their skills include agi, IPA, DED, and either 2 guild downs of your choice, or any two of IPD, DEA, and preemptive strike, lol.

Preemptive is pretty useless in all honesty. Usually the ones who hit before everything else don't even kill my monsters. Especially not a team that is all 20+ BP...

As far as I can see, the most useless skills in this game are the breaths and preemptive. Critical just made the list too now though.

Lol, you have not faced a lewd or sdd then, lol. Preemptive is especially useful when facing a team with more agi than you, lol, especially if you have a preemptive user with stats comparable to SDD's, lol.

For the most part, skill 20 in agility on a Bayard means I hit first. The HP up and DEA ensure that the opponent's attacks, even the preemptive ones, DONT kill any of my monsters first.

After every battle I look at what did and didn't happen, ie check the log or just watch the battle, especially with/vs high level users.

90% of the time, I hit first after their preemptive hit. And all their preemptive hit did was reduce one monsters' HP do about half or 1/4, while mine whack the hell out of his team.

As far as I can see, most preemptive monsters seem to have low attack. Are there any where this isn't the case? I don't know what LEWD or SDD means.

LEWD= Lewd Twist Lologi(22bp). 6500 attack maxed.

SDD = Shadow Domain Demon(25bp). Pretty rare demon(from a legendary monster shadow in the death flute event). 7600 attack maxed(which is pretty painful).

Lewd is Lewd Twist Lologi, a psycho demon with decently high attack and preemptive strike. SDD is Shadow Domain Demon, rarer than lewd, she also has preemptive strike and has even more attack than lewd. These two can, and often do, kill stuff at the outset, lol.

But if they're so rare then I would rather worry about the more common teams than one or two specialized teams.

In fact, a down team would be more effective than a buff team. Mathematically anyways.

Example:

If you have an attack down, your opponent has 5700 attack (assuming he started at 7600) and even if he has an attack up, he ends up with 7125. This is still less than your opponent had before.

Now tack on increase defense and/or HP up. There's no current HP down monster, so your HP CANNOT be debuffed. As far as I know anyways.

So sure, preemptive is good and all but if the monster is so rare... unless they introduce preemptive spirits I don't really see how it will be a big problem. You can't win every single match!

Lol, they're rare, but as you get higher, more and more tyranny teams have them. I've been up against countless teams consisting of blood quencher sekhmet, dawn lilin, death call Covenant, shadow Domain Demon, AND lewd twist lologi, and they're no joke. Also, if the enemy has IPA that is equal to your DEA, then a monster that started with 7600 ends with 7600, lol. As in, no change to attack. And the extra health will do you no good if they're using DED and a covert down, cuz that will result in your monsters having 50% less def (or 25% less if you have IPD) either way, that preemptive strike will hurt a lot then. There's a reason why most ppl don't really try a tank oriented A+ team, lol. Even if they can't OHKO your monsters, if they take out even just one before it's your move, your tank strategy gets ruined, lol. And two preemptive strikes will easily pull that off. SDD alone will probably OHKO one of your monsters, then you're effed up.

That's not correct though, about the increase/decrease.

If you do the math, you'll see. Your opponent ends up with 7100 or so attack, assuming he started with 7600 and has equal ied. The reason for this is your decrease is MUCH more powerful, as if he buffs first, you decrease THAT stat. And if you rebuff first, he increases THAT stat.

At least, that is how it should work unless I have the order of skills wrong? Does this have have an order of ability strike? Or is it all instanteous? Doesn't seem instant, looking at battle records.

No, the thing is, all those skills are applied to the team's initial attack/defense. At least, that's how most games handle this sort of buff/debuff. Atk = initial atk + (buff amount - debuff amount). Making order matter doesn't make for a fair game, lol, when dealing with percentages

That's not true. Rage of bahamut and deity wars both go in order of casting. So not all gamesdo that, and since the animations take sequence instead of all at once, in addition to the fact they sometimes seem to be disordered in order of casting, it makes me think the order changes and it's not instant.

Also: if the key threat in later teams is psycho teams, then wouldn't attack down, defense up, psycho down be the best combination? I mean, the only way to beat something that strikes first is to rebuff it to the point it can't do much harm.

Unfortunately, we can't really settle this unless we can see the actual atk value of the monsters as the effects are applied. To make matters worse for you, skills are always cast by the attacker first, so if the order matters, then it is equally possible that the math is resolved in reverse order, like in trading card games, such as yugioh. If that's the case, then +atk is more powerful than -atk, lol, and -def > +def. As for how to best defend yourself, imo the best way is to kill them before they kill you, lol. A final note: I am not saying that the chief danger is psycho demons, the point I was making is that there ARE monsters with preemptive strike that are far from useless, so that raises preemptive strike's value to the useful skills. The reason why ppl don't buy preemptive strike at 2:1 is that, while it is useful, it is very common, lol. Since they don't have problems finding it, they don't pay much for it, lol

GS693 wrote:Yeah you misunderstood the agi question. And my question there would be why not make, for example:

Agi, IPA, crit, crit, crit?

It's not hard to get skill 20 in crit. For me, anyways.

A very viable strategy if you can find 3 monsters with crit that fits in your combo. For most team I see maybe at best 2. If you have to skill change it than it won't be worth it as crit spirit is still pretty expensive.

Kyan
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GS693 wrote:Hmm. My current team that I'm trying to train up:

Bayard
High knight beast
Simian
Beast soul knight
Gusion

So I have HP, impulse and psycho downs, enemy defence down, and agility.

My current idea:

Replace HKB with labyrinith minotaur, then slap a lower attack spirit on him. (It's the only onei have)

The more chance your monsters sirvive the first or second hits, the more your odds of winning imo. I have a tanking mindset heh.

Haven't seen anyone try a tanking strategy for an A+ team. In theory its possible but because of stat distribution (A+ tends to have higher attack than def and hp) and comboes giving an edge to attack. Most ppl go with an attacking strategy.

Decrease enemy attack by itself is not enough without either guild down or at least defense up. It you're going tanking than you might as well go all the way and use atk-, def+, health+, psy- and imp-. If maxed that will be a beast of a defensive team. I know for AA+ most ppl go with this strategy. By combining them you can render even AA+ to hit for nearly nothing so there is no reason it shouldn't work for an A+ team. Its just A+ don't have as much defense/hp and its rather costly to level up guild down and health. Health in particular as only A has this skill.

Kyan
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GS693 wrote:If you can propose a better team than what I have now, please do let me know. I have Centaurus sitting on standby since he's low BP and kind of pointless with BSK.

The cookie cutter formation would be bay, bsk, fire roc(for ipa), and either simian, gusion or mino. Despite ppl hating on crit, its a useful skill imo. It may not be activate that often but when it does, it usually a one shot. After the "essential skills" you might as well go for one that gives you a good chance to one shot your opponent.

Kyan
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Kyan, correct me if I'm wrong, but psycho dark lords tend to have higher def/hp than attack, yes? If I was trying for a defensive strategy, I'd go for the legendary combo and use higher dark lords, the ones that do get a skill when they evolve. Legendary combo, with health up gives a pretty good boost to health, no?