Let's say you wanted to start over...

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Let's say you wanted to start over...

Post by Scratch102 on Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:46 pm

For about the last 40 levels I have been thinking about starting my account over. I'm currently working towards finishing off the 'standard' Impulse Demon team and have Pit, Kag, Paimon, BBD, DoA all at 70. Before I invest the time/effort etc in trying to locate Asura/Spite/Balrog I was looking again at what sort of etch-a-sketch do over I could work on.

I'm talking about scrapping the whole account, some of my clan members would help me move a few cards over, and just working from 1 on up, knowing NOW how better to play the game.

What guild would you choose and why? What sort of team (A+) would you build and why? Let's keep in mind that EP is stupid hard to come by right now...heck I have NONE to my name, and I would be scrapping every card I have to build up a new fresh team to level...hoping I could locate the 'good' parts of a team that are not maxed for cheaper/etc

I've gotten some wonderful suggestions about my current setup in another thread in this section, and the biggest thing I have learned towards a possible rebuild is the fact that Wyrm Down is not out there, which is a good thing. Smile

So let me hear your personal suggestions about what guild/team if you could start over and why!

Thanks!

(I also listed about damn near every card I have in my Store, so you can see what I have to play with)

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Re: Let's say you wanted to start over...

Post by larry378 on Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:03 pm

I actually thought about starting over fresh with covert winged wyrms at one point, then just didn't get around to doing it.

If you know what you're doing, covert is the best guild to get into. Quite simply, there are fewer covert players than others, and for that reason you have the combat advantage of covert down being a low priority on folk's skill portfolios. Also if you rank in top 500 of an event, as say a SIN player, your AA is worth about 200, as a covert player? 350. It's superior ROI on the same ep investment to rank, and your prize is far more valuable because of how few covert players there are compared to impulse.

Covert winged wyrms are a 5x combo; quetz, jupiter, sky, lind, (vritra, or mercury) all of whom are actually extremely affordable monsters. This gets an EXCELLENT skill-set of impulse/demon down, ipa, agi (and a fifth depending on vritra or mercury or some other winged cov wyrms yet to be released etc...). covert winged wyrms with imp/demon down are supremely effective against sin demons which are probably the most commonly deployed team in the entire game (as discussed in the previous thread) which makes this a very very very good formation

Also covert has the hottest chicks




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Re: Let's say you wanted to start over...

Post by ryesteve on Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:42 pm

My advice would be not to start over. There's nothing to be gained from that, and you'll lose whatever progress you've made. It's not as if switching to rancor or tyranny offers you significantly better options than what you have now.
But if you wanted to do something different, I'd say go with a low BP AA+ squad. Everyone thinks they're crap, so they're easy to get, but if you combine 5 of them, by the time you tack on the rarity and level bonuses, and either the BP or winged bonus, your stats will be so much higher than an A+ squad, you'll be able to beat most of them even without skills.

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Re: Let's say you wanted to start over...

Post by JessicaMD on Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:46 pm

ryesteve wrote:My advice would be not to start over. There's nothing to be gained from that, and you'll lose whatever progress you've made. It's not as if switching to rancor or tyranny offers you significantly better options than what you have now.
But if you wanted to do something different, I'd say go with a low BP AA+ squad. Everyone thinks they're crap, so they're easy to get, but if you combine 5 of them, by the time you tack on the rarity and level bonuses, and either the BP or winged bonus, your stats will be so much higher than an A+ squad, you'll be able to beat most of them even without skills.

I'm not too sure about that... There really are some benefits to being low level. I started right at the end of the mobius event so my first 'real' event was Den of Woe. Frequent energy refill let me get all the way to level 200 and my second hall cast only using about 2 or 3 my energy potions in total. I also went from level 20-something to level 50 over the course of that event.

Also I'm not too sure about the 80bp AA+ team, I guess they might be able to beat some under-skilled A-formations, but unless there's some skill changing going on, I usually consider those to be "easy targets" when I'm battling compared to legitimate formations like tyrrany and sin demons, or rancor beasts, or rancor/sin dragons.


I guess back on topic about fun ideas for a fresh start, you could always try tyrrany winged wyrms, which is actually what I wanted to do when I started playing, but before dragon wall, there weren't really enough tyrrany wyrms with wings to even make a full formation Sad So I did winged brutes instead (actually have a psycho demon team which I'm going to be switching to, they're all all evolved, have decent skill levels, but most aren't maxed yet). Psycho dragons can be fun if you use Snowstorm, Crystal, White Silver, Saturn, and Tiamut, I guess there is also Lindwurm which you can tack on for some agility while keeping wings. That's not a great form, but it's a pretty one Razz, and the one I would have used if I started playing after dragon wall and ally summon white silver was available.

You can also do a psycho creation team, with Hallucination Cast, Seeker Quad, Time Void Golem, Scaled Chimera, Sky Savior Collossus, that's got agility, increase attack, decrease attack, and decrease defense, with an AA+ to top it off which should keep 2x combos (Psycho, Creation)


Any formation you choose will be limited by what type of agility monsters are available. Currently there are...

Sin;
Child of Pit (demon, no wings)
Marbas (beast, no wings)
Nidhogg (dragon, no wings)

Tyrrany;
White Winged Elite (brute, wings)
Death Call Covenant (demon, no wings)
Seeker Quadriga (creation, no wings)

Covert;
Lindwurm (dragon, wings)
Barry the Horse (beast, no wings)
Sea of Clouds (dragon, no wings)
Demon Bait Insect (crawler, no wings)

So... basically you can pick and choose nearly anything you want as long as they can incorporate one of the above... Even cross guild should be fine if you're keeping species and wings since you'll still be able to have 3 or 4x combo


I know the last thing that wasn't really mentioned anywhere here or in the last thread are beasts. But I don't know too much about them.

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Re: Let's say you wanted to start over...

Post by ryesteve on Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:03 pm

JessicaMD wrote:I started right at the end of the mobius event so my first 'real' event was Den of Woe. Frequent energy refill let me get all the way to level 200 and my second hall cast only using about 2 or 3 my energy potions in total.
Not impressive really. I got to 200 in the most recent event, and ended up with more EPs than when I started. As for the subsequent suggestions... psycho wyrms is a terrible idea, unless you're just hell-bent on doing something different. And adding a hall cast to an A+ creation team is going to make it way worse than leaving in another A+ creation for the extra combos and a decent skill.

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Re: Let's say you wanted to start over...

Post by JessicaMD on Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:32 pm

ryesteve wrote:
JessicaMD wrote:I started right at the end of the mobius event so my first 'real' event was Den of Woe. Frequent energy refill let me get all the way to level 200 and my second hall cast only using about 2 or 3 my energy potions in total.
Not impressive really. I got to 200 in the most recent event, and ended up with more EPs than when I started. As for the subsequent suggestions... psycho wyrms is a terrible idea, unless you're just hell-bent on doing something different. And adding a hall cast to an A+ creation team is going to make it way worse than leaving in another A+ creation for the extra combos and a decent skill.

*sigh... we're not talking about the most efficient way to play the game here. I think everyone knows what the most efficient rinse-repeat method is... This is like when someone makes a post for formation advice and all those rude replies of "that form sucks, scrap it entirely and use this one instead"

I think the whole point was what some different things to do were.

Unless you were playing a completely different event than everyone else, I'm not sure how you were getting EP from the event... Whatever you traded on the side doesn't really have anything to do with the event... And I know this time without using a single ep on the event I got to floor 150, which just means you are higher level than me and have more energy so your basic recharge let you go further without spending any ep. (in that case, being able to do 200 floors with a level 30-50 account is a significant improvement (akin to being whatever level you are as opposed to the average level 60-70's energy potential of doing ~150 floors without potions).

Just look at the old thread before this one... everyone knows what sin and psycho demons are, skill respecs, dumping allies to respec etc etc... We're just looking for alternative ways to have fun... I'm not saying these forms are better than the cookie cutter ones, I'm just saying that they're fun and they're not altogether terrible...

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Re: Let's say you wanted to start over...

Post by ryesteve on Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:04 pm

You get some EPs after beating some of the bosses along the way. Why do you not know this?

And who's talking about cookie-cutter formations? I wasn't telling him to go with demons or winged brutes. You offered up psycho wyrms as an alternative to my idea of low BP AA+'s, which is no one's idea of a cookie cutter formation... and you can sigh all you want, but psycho wyrms is still a terrible alternative.

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Re: Let's say you wanted to start over...

Post by JessicaMD on Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:15 pm

Well, I didn't get any eps from the bosses, those might be from much higher floor rankings. There were 1 or 2 MYeps, but the vast majority of the bosses had ally points, gold, or B monsters during my run...

I'm sorry if you interpreted psycho wyrms as an alternative to low BP AA+s, but he was asking for cheap formations...

I absolutely agree with you that psycho wyrms will lose to the 80bpAA team every single time, but how much do psycho wyrms cost in comparison to a full 80bpAA+m team? I think the question was about cheap formations

" Let's keep in mind that EP is stupid hard to come by right now...heck I have NONE to my name"

I'll concede that psycho wyrms aren't any good. I'm pretty sure I said it's not a very good formation, and it mainly looks nice, nevertheless sorry if I offended you or something.

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Re: Let's say you wanted to start over...

Post by Scratch102 on Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:06 pm

Whoa whoaaaa folks, no need to get snippy... I appreciate the thought of a low BP AA+ crew but like... what cards would that be? Unless you're talking about me stacking 3 Casts or something else, I don't see myself being able to afford that anytime soon even after selling my demon team.

But it is interesting, what AA+ cards would you suggest?

One reason I really like larry378's idea of covert wyrms is that I already have few of those cards, AND browsing the auctions there are A LOT of them being sold for pretty cheap as he said.

Tyranny wyrms could be interesting, with the Dragon Wall event letting out more cards to use...and the Ally summon... hrmn... THOUGH that may be banging my head against a brick wall.

...aaaand yes, Covert has the hottest chicks by far. *OW* ok damn my wife just smacked me, but then I showed her the cards larry378 listed and the Sin Brutes on my phone, and she agreed... Covert is hotter. Adding in that since this will be my main go to as a pastime since we're about to have our first kid any day now, starting over would be FUN to do, even if it isn't the most efficient way of doing anything.

Heck if I do start over I will have about 56k ally points to burn through for summons before I junk the account.

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Re: Let's say you wanted to start over...

Post by ryesteve on Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:14 pm

Aren't the casts and 16bp dragons dirt cheap? I've seen people asking 5ep and not getting any offers. Has their valiue gone up lately?

And about the event eps, it's the opposite... they're more common in the lower floors, because they want to help people get to 200. After that, they're much rarer, because they want the people trying to rank to have to spend their way to the top without much help from potion drops.

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Re: Let's say you wanted to start over...

Post by larry378 on Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:19 pm

Well, tca aside for AAs as that varies extremely; 3ep for a cast. 900 for an anna. tco is something like 3.5m gold or ~35ep to evolve and max, less if ya use souls.

The 80bp AAs arent really even remotely good unless maxed, and even then real teams can squash em from what ive seen

I didnt get any ep from this event... unless youre talking about ranking rewards, i did get some 100myEP and some myBP. But im pretty sure no ep whatsoever. That may just be rng though, as there is some difference in the non 1/6 collectible rewards from bosses...

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Re: Let's say you wanted to start over...

Post by kyan on Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:56 am

Starting over can be fun especially if you already got good cards. I considered it awhile back when it became apparent when I started going for rankings that Sin was far more costly but by that time I have several sin AA+ and it was too much of a hassle.

I did get another device that can play DS so instead of starting over, I started a new account which I kept at low level as a bank and as a gold farm. You get far more gold from battling at low level than high level and with a main account feeding it a good team. It was easy to win just about any battle. Lost once against a max agility psych demon team. It was a bit of a shock lol.

What ryesteve said is correct. You get 1-2 my ep on the way to floor 200. I did this on 2 accounts and it was like that both time. They were not tradable eps but still not bad.

The cost of the 16bp team is mostly in the leveling. With the half cost sacrifice, I'm seeing a lot of plus one selling for cheap. You can find them for 10-15 each. Even with the half price sacrifice, it'll cost 1-1.3 millions to level each of them so that's ~10ep with the current gold price. So for a total of ~120 ep you can assemble a maxed bp16 team but for the same price you can get a max level rancor beast/winged wyrm team. Quite a bit less if you shop around and assemble/level it yourself.

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Re: Let's say you wanted to start over...

Post by Xoct on Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:22 pm

What this game means to me is having fun. If I wanted a Creation team, I would go Tyranny. If I wanted either a Crawler or Beast team I'd go Rancor. My deal is that I like the aforementioned teams, so the decision would be hard for me to pick.

As you might tell, I am of Sin and I run Demons. I have a Rancor Crawler team, and a Tyranny Creation team made also. All of which are A+

Sin Demons:
Balrog of Rage+
Spite Devil Mage+
Hellfield Devil Asura+
Flame Kagutsuchi+
Child of Pit+

Rancor Crawler:
Lightning Bug+
Berserker Mite+
Crimson Beetle Knight+
Demon Bait Insect+
Parasitic Centipede+

Tyranny Creation:
Rampage Gargoyle+
Time Void Golem+
Seeker Quadriga+
White Winged Colossus+
Sky Savoir Colossus+


I suppose starting over could be refreshing, leveling is easier considering you're back to level 1 again. I would not be able to overlook the time it took me to get to the current level I am so far, 69.

Then again, you get a "secret guild bonus" not to be confused with the card flavor bonus i.e. Impulse, Psycho, and Covert. This secret bonus apparently awards you more stats for using a team that matches your guild [Like 5% or something].

So if you do not like using the team you have, and are POSITIVE you would love using a team of a different guild, then restarting your game would be a great idea.

I mentioned that I love Creation, Crawler, and am starting to take a liking to Beast, and Mystic [If only there were more monsters for a viable team QQ].
Even though I like those cards, I am still stuck loving Demons and Undead. Heck if there were enough Undead monsters compared to Demons, I'd be maining a pretty sick Undead formation instead.

Long Story Short, you supposedly get a secret bonus for using a formation that matches your guild. If you are sure you will be happier with a formation of another guild compared to your own, and positive that you will not regret your choice; I would say restarting may be a good idea. BUT beware, you will not be able to complete missions as fast or as many as you can do now since you would be restarting back to Level 1. If you can appreciate being Level 1 again and grinding your way back to the level you are now, then have fun and go for it.

DO RESEARCH on Monsters to see what you like, I can not stress that more cause there are a ton of cards you might not know about or had overlooked. (:



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Re: Let's say you wanted to start over...

Post by CheeseB on Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:15 pm


If you want the CHEAPEST viable A+ team, I'd recommend psycho creations.

I recently won an auction for 7 EPs and got:
Time Void Golem+
Seeker Quadriga+
Lightning Core+
Rampage Gargoyle+
Scaled Chimera+

I already had White Winged Colossus+ and Vicissitude Colossus+. In total the whole team cost me under 20 EPs. Granted, I got a great deal, but all I'm saying is it's out there if you're good at auctioning.

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Re: Let's say you wanted to start over...

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