Need Some Formation Help Please

by **Njschweigert** Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:36 pm

I just finished maxing my formation (Flame Kag, Balrog, Asura, Spite Mage, Pit) and I'm not sure what my next move should be.

Which AA should I target first? Should I break up my combo with the first AA I get or is my combo better until I get a couple AA?

I'm basically looking for what my long term best team should be and what I should be doing short term to build towards that.

I currently have ~110 ep, an Adan, WWSP+m, DCC, and a couple other semi-valuable creatures to build my team with.

Thanks for any help you all can give!

by **Armitaage** Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:45 am

after you make a fully maxed team of your choice for battling, upgrades become totally up to you. if you want to stick with sin demons, you're in luck, there's precisely 5 of rank AA. not so lucky, they will probably cost you two arms, two legs, and BOTH eyes to get them all assembled. many of them are limited edition, and since demons are extremely popular for sin...

by **Njschweigert** Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:34 am

Armitaage wrote:after you make a fully maxed team of your choice for battling, upgrades become totally up to you. if you want to stick with sin demons, you're in luck, there's precisely 5 of rank AA. not so lucky, they will probably cost you two arms, two legs, and BOTH eyes to get them all assembled. many of them are limited edition, and since demons are extremely popular for sin...

What would the approx prices be for the AA sin demons?

by **Bestron2** Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:54 am

Too much... waaaaay too much. AT LEAST 1000 EP for Anna + alone, and that's only for a single part of the team. That should tell what what kind of ballpark you'd be looking at, but I'd value the entire AA + team to be upwards of 2000 EP at the very least.

If you're looking for a complete AA only team, not +, then you won't be able to build a full Sin Demon Team, because there are no regular Annas that I know of, or have seen.

by **Njschweigert** Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:07 am

Yeah, lets forget about a demon AA team lol. WAYYYY too much.

What would be the best reasonably affordable AA/AA+ team.

by **Bestron2** Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:31 am

I can't really think of many off the top of my head, but just to cobble together a team of AA's shouldn't take that much. However, they wouldn't have much in the way of combos, probably only Rarity and Level, possible Guild as well. I've seen some arguments on the virtues of 16 BP AA+ teams, which is dirt cheap and affordable, but... you should ask someone better informed to tell you the bad things about that kind of team.

But it you're just trying to find random AAs, you'd probably be better off with the team you have now, considering that you have a good skill line up and the famed agility.

And does Sin even have any affordable AAs? I think they have the most expensive. I mean, what is their equivalent of Dru and Taroth?

(edit: NVM about that question, I remembered Vlad, heheh... )

Someone like kyan, Armitaage or Osf should be able to fill you in. They are our Forum Overlords Laughing

and I think some of our better and/or more well informed residents here.

by **blah** Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:11 am

Bestron2 wrote:That should tell what what kind of ballpark you'd be looking at, but I'd value the entire AA + team to be upwards of 2000 EP at the very least.

Only that much?

I saw someone asking for 1000+ EP for J. Minos, and I'm sure the rest are about the same. I'd say around 5000 for the team. I mean, a 5 AA dragon team was about 10k EP(okay, it was the first time that it was built, and it was the best at the time), but I expect no less than 5000 without some epic bidding.

by **kyan** Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:51 am

Thanks for the recommendation bestronl, I'll try to do my best. I can tell you what I did after I finished my sin demon team.

I waited until after I got two AA+ before I broke it apart. With two the attack is about the same but the def and hp is much higher. With the higher innate agility of the AA+ it's much better team.

After that just add more AA+ as you get them replacing Atk+ and agility A+ last.

As for cheap sin AA. Vlad than its Sara Adan and fire lord. They are all great. I'm still using Adan and Sara. I was using vlad and fire until recently.

You don't need a4x combo. 3x AA+ team are already really powerful. I can beat very team I have try with my 3x AA+ team including winged wyrm and psy brute. Haven't test against sin demon AA as I'm sin. There are only a few teams that can beat me on defense mostly high end cov team as I typically don't run cov down and I don't even have the best team as I don't have a def up member.

As for the sin demon AA+ team it's around 5k
Anna+ 1500-2000
Dhr+ 1200-1500
Minos+ 100-1300
Terror+ 700-900
Grizel+ 700-900

All of them except for grizel is event limited so there price is unlikely to be reduced.

Kyan

by **Armitaage** Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:43 pm

Bestron2 wrote:I can't really think of many off the top of my head, but just to cobble together a team of AA's shouldn't take that much. However, they wouldn't have much in the way of combos, probably only Rarity and Level, possible Guild as well. I've seen some arguments on the virtues of 16 BP AA+ teams, which is dirt cheap and affordable, but... you should ask someone better informed to tell you the bad things about that kind of team.

But it you're just trying to find random AAs, you'd probably be better off with the team you have now, considering that you have a good skill line up and the famed agility.

And does Sin even have any affordable AAs? I think they have the most expensive. I mean, what is their equivalent of Dru and Taroth?

(edit: NVM about that question, I remembered Vlad, heheh... )

Someone like kyan, Armitaage or Osf should be able to fill you in. They are our Forum Overlords and I think some of our better and/or more well informed residents here.

thanks for the recommendation too, i will try to add on to what has been said already.

first off, i completely agree with kyan, wait to break formation until you can put in at least 2 AA/+. i've faced many teams with just 1 AA/+, and beaten them to a pulp, though i am thinking it has been also because the owner of said AA/+ has been idiot enough to put it in team unleveled and think that it'll somehow strengthen the team. put a minimum of two in, and BE SURE TO LEVEL THEM FIRST. i can't stress how important it is to LEVEL THEM FIRST. seriously, LEVEL THE AA/+ BEFORE PUTTING THEM IN. maxing them is a bonus, but at least get them to lvl 71 or higher.

now that that is off my chest, let's shift focus to the pros and cons of the 16 bp AA+ team.

pros:
* cheap(cheaper even than many A+ teams)
* 80 bp(you don't have to put any points into bp to use it, isn't that great?)
* 3x combo(rarity, level, bp)
* decent stats for bp cost(not counting in-guild, clan, and skill bonuses, these teams have about 53482 atk, 50936 def, and 44100 health, making them a little weaker than the high end A+ teams, but no easy task to break)
* perfect for rank hunting, unless you're in the top overall ranks already

cons:
* no skills(you want skills, you'll have to buy spirits for them)
* low stats for their rank(compared to other AA/+ teams, their stats are positively laughable)
* common cards(people value dru, taroth, and vlad more than these monsters)

yes, there are a lot of good things about this team, but the bad carry some serious weight, particularly the first two. if you decide to make one of these teams, i highly recommend that you also keep your other team, just in case.

by **kyan** Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:25 pm

One last note about bp16 AA+ team. There is little to no room for improvement other than very expensive skill spirits. Breaking the bp combo with another AA+ will reduce the stat of the team.

I agree with armitaage completely on leveling. AA+ reach half max stat at ~level 70. So a AA+ at level 70 has lower stat than most A+ at 70. Its an exponential equation as Kris has worked out so they really shines at level 100 and above.

Kyan

by **Njschweigert** Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:59 am

That helps a TON. Thank you guys. I don't think the 16BP team is for me. I'll go for Vlad, Adan, Sara, and Fire Lord.

Would I continue to use Pit as my 5th with those 4? Are there any AA with Agi?

What should I expect to The wheel of fortune for those 4 AA?

Should I make them AA+ for it to be viable?

At what point do I break up the combo I have? After I get 1 AA+? 2 AA+?

Thank you guys for all the great info and help.

by **Armitaage** Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:54 am

I'll update this when I get home, but I disagree with kyan on that final point about upgrading from the 16 bp AA team. There are two ways besides skill spirits to upgrade it, but they have to be done the same way you slowly break up combos of A+ teams; you have to hold off until you have two other wyrms or creations before upgrading. Then you exchange bp combo for species combo, a net gain of 10% atk and def. As for when you should break combo, as mentioned in above posts, when you can put in two (2) AA/+.

by **Bestron2** Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:12 am

Njschweigert wrote:That helps a TON. Thank you guys. I don't think the 16BP team is for me. I'll go for Vlad, Adan, Sara, and Fire Lord.

Would I continue to use Pit as my 5th with those 4? Are there any AA with Agi?

What should I expect to The wheel of fortune for those 4 AA?

Should I make them AA+ for it to be viable?

At what point do I break up the combo I have? After I get 1 AA+? 2 AA+?

Thank you guys for all the great info and help.

I'm not sure how much you would have to The wheel of fortune, but as a newbie to this kind of AA pricing I would tentatively put forward 600. Eh, possibly less, but I really don't know.

Until you get a 5th AA, you could take Pit. Might help you get the edge on other AA teams, and no, there are no AAs with Agility. I've heard from some players (via the forum chat) that, quote, "Health Up is the new Agility", in the AA ballpark.

You don't have to make them AA+ to make them viable, but it's always better, as you could well imagine, haha.

And I would imagine you could break your combos at any time. Just experiment; once you have two, jot down your old values before subbing in your new toys. If you end up with less stats, pull them out and then wait until you have three.

Good luck!

by **kyan** Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:35 pm

Njschweigert wrote:That helps a TON. Thank you guys. I don't think the 16BP team is for me. I'll go for Vlad, Adan, Sara, and Fire Lord.

Would I continue to use Pit as my 5th with those 4? Are there any AA with Agi?

What should I expect to The wheel of fortune for those 4 AA?

Should I make them AA+ for it to be viable?

At what point do I break up the combo I have? After I get 1 AA+? 2 AA+?

Thank you guys for all the great info and help.

Pit or asura would be your fifth depending on the situation. If you're attacking and your opponent doesn't have agility than asura will give a big boost whereas pit will do nothing. If your opponent has an agility than pit will give you the edge. On defense probably pit as it will give you possibility of going first.

I wouldn't go with just AA but straight to AA+. The AA are only slightly better than the A+ and the cost of leveling and particularly skilling is not recover when you evolved to AA+.

As for cost at low level no skill
vlad ~50
Sara, Adan ~100
Fire ~110 (rare to find fire as a low level AA. Most are AA+ max skill) ~280-300.

After 2AA+, even though your team's attack will go down a little. The extra defense, hp and the faster speed of the AA+ will be better than your A+ team.

Kyan

by **kyan** Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:44 pm

Armitaage wrote:I'll update this when I get home, but I disagree with kyan on that final point about upgrading from the 16 bp AA team. There are two ways besides skill spirits to upgrade it, but they have to be done the same way you slowly break up combos of A+ teams; you have to hold off until you have two other wyrms or creations before upgrading. Then you exchange bp combo for species combo, a net gain of 10% atk and def. As for when you should break combo, as mentioned in above posts, when you can put in two (2) AA/+.

The whole point of a 16bp AA team is cheap and low bp. If you're going to get 2 other AA+ creations or wyrms you might as well not spend the resource to level a 16bp AA team. It will only be slightly better than an A+ and you have to assemble the whole team before using it as a hybrid with 16bp AA+ won't be better than an A+ team whereas other AA+ allows you to transition to a hybrid team before a full AA+ team. The 16bp AA+ team won't stand a chance against other AA+ team and most hybrid AA+/A+ team. Other than db, creation AA+ are 200+ep. Wyrms are far more expensive, 350+ each. Its possible to create a decent AA+ with 3 casts+, nyar+ and db+ for 300-400ep if you want to go that route.

Kyan

by **Armitaage** Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:08 am

kyan wrote:
Armitaage wrote:I'll update this when I get home, but I disagree with kyan on that final point about upgrading from the 16 bp AA team. There are two ways besides skill spirits to upgrade it, but they have to be done the same way you slowly break up combos of A+ teams; you have to hold off until you have two other wyrms or creations before upgrading. Then you exchange bp combo for species combo, a net gain of 10% atk and def. As for when you should break combo, as mentioned in above posts, when you can put in two (2) AA/+.

The whole point of a 16bp AA team is cheap and low bp. If you're going to get 2 other AA+ creations or wyrms you might as well not spend the resource to level a 16bp AA team. It will only be slightly better than an A+ and you have to assemble the whole team before using it as a hybrid with 16bp AA+ won't be better than an A+ team whereas other AA+ allows you to transition to a hybrid team before a full AA+ team. The 16bp AA+ team won't stand a chance against other AA+ team and most hybrid AA+/A+ team. Other than db, creation AA+ are 200+ep. Wyrms are far more expensive, 350+ each. Its possible to create a decent AA+ with 3 casts+, nyar+ and db+ for 300-400ep if you want to go that route.

Kyan

lol, sorry, not had a lot of time at the computer lately. not quite the point i was making, what i was trying to say is that once you have this super cheap AA+ team(you can get any of the 16 bp AAs for as little as 3 ep or so), upgrading FROM it is not impossible. also wyrm upgrades, at least for the moment are not really that expensive; remember kanna AA, fairly common and unwanted, despite having slightly more bp than the others. so assuming you choose to upgrade to dragons, then you would have kanna in and you can pick one of any of the other wyrm AAs, including moon sea, banished, gold gorger, etc. yes, they are much more expensive than the total team you already have combined, but it's still a very small price to The wheel of fortune, compared to the full cost of a "proper" AA/+ team. still, the 16 bp AA+ team is not particularly great, but upgradeability is not really a concern.

by **Dark Impact** Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:17 pm

TLDR for lots of this I won't lie haha... but has anyone raised the possibility of you selling your sellables including your team and buying a Team with All 3 AA+ 16 bp dragons, and then adding Moon Sea+ (maybe) and DoD or Wingarm/Gold Gorger/etc.?

How about....

All three AA+ dragons 16 bp

and

Moon Sea+

DoD+?

that's I think a 4x combo AA team if they are all winged.

AA's are faster than As, and if the enemy has like 6 agility or less, you will still go first...

Food for thought Smile

by **kyan** Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:40 pm

There are very few AA+ max out there for purchase. There are more of the dragon AA+ max than casts but it takes ~3.5mil gold to plus and max a AA+ so most people won't bother or if they do ask for 40-50ep for them at least so he might be able to trade his team for 3AA+ max though if someone has the resource to max 3 AA+, they are unlikely to take the team so he'll have to sell the team for ep and buy the AA+ after if he can find them.

Moon sea AA or Dod AA alone cost more than his entire team much less the AA+.

Kyan

by **Njschweigert** Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:21 am

Wow, you guys have been SOOOO helpful and informative. Thank you so much!

I already aquired a vlad+ and have it up to level 70. I also have an Adan and just got an Odin that I hope to trade for an Adan so I can + that.

I still have 70 ep and will get a sara or firelord next.

I do see how the 16bp is viable but it just doesn't interest me. It doesn't excite me if that makes sense.

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