TOO BIG 8==============>

hope I don't get in trouble for the title....mods I can erase part of it....(just getting a point acrossed...lol)


I feel the teams are getting to BIG for the noobies and even me a middle guy. They keep comeing out with 35bp A+s or 45bp AAs or the new AAAs.....but what about a replacement for my taroth (yes he has a useful skill but he is weak as crap).... How about a more powerful skilled replacement for him or others out there more Kotone types and such...I mean yea the 16 and 20bp guys are great bit no skill AMD same with some of the As....I feel that there is too much at either end and not enough middle.

Not to mention they haven't made any real changes to the A+ meta (AKA more agi monsters). They keep releasing monsters but hardly any of them are useful at all.

silentsong wrote:Not to mention they haven't made any real changes to the A+ meta (AKA more agi monsters). They keep releasing monsters but hardly any of them are useful at all.

yeah! I really got this impressions too!

there seem to be very few 'new' teams that have come out since I started playing...

Psycho demons got some new demons (blue steel mainly)
Psycho Creation got some new creations
I guess Psycho Brutes (unwinged) did become a serious formation since I started playing when they released inos, iris, and purple flame for an agi,ipd,ded,dea,agi team... and now that 35bp ipa psycho brute...

Sin demons got some new demons (mostly useless demons compared to the standard balrog,sdm,kag,asura,pit team; but cannonball directly replaced SDM so that's an upgrade at least)
Sin wyrms got some new wyrms (but not super incredible ones or anything, I think the new ones are just mars, uranus, kana, which I think made winged sin wyrms (without agi) possibly for the first time)

Covert wyrms got some new wyrms (most importantly mesh which upgraded the standard form)
Covert beasts got some new beasts (too many to keep track of)


It seems like no other "new" teams really came out of recent releases other than psycho brutes... I mean they did give out some sin undeads but that's not really a team yet, and they had some covert mystics I think, but they had bad or no skills so they couldn't be put on the actual team...


anyways, more agi monsters for some new teams would be great!
psycho beast with agi, psycho winged wyrm with agi
sin undead with agi, sin winged brute with agi
covert mystic with agi, covert winged demon with agi (first winged agi demon? ooh, people could do 4x no guild combos and stuff with demons that actually have agi)

Here's another option that would be nice. Change Increase Dodge Rate to Party Dodge Rate, so teams without AGI would have a chance at more *MISS* *MISS* etc etc...

I for one think they some add some functionality to agi.

so far the only purpose of agi is to compare to opponent agi.

How about some benefits for having a dramatic agi advantage against someone?

i.e.

if 2 agi(x) teams fight, sure the attacking team gets to go first (like normal)

but if a agi(x) and agi(y), x>y n (value of n to be determined by A-team, maybe something big like between 8 and 14) team with agi(x) gets multiple attacks [or at least the agi monster gets multiple attacks])

example:

2 teams fight.
team A: A monster x4, agi A monster (20)
team B: A monster x5

team A gets first strike, agi monster gets 3 attacks (not in a row, but first as a p-strike, and then regular, and one after the entire attack chain has finished), the 'next fastest' monster in formation gets to doublestrike as well (once during standard order, once after regular order has finished; only
for first round.*more on this later

2 teams fight.
team A: A monster x4, agi A monster (10)
team B: A monster x5,

team A gets first strike, agi monster gets 2 attacks (not in a row, but first as a p-strike, and then regular) [same thing happens with agi(20) vs agi(10)]. no next fastest here because of only 10 difference

2 teams fight.
team A: A monster, agi A monster (20)
team B: AA monster x5

team A gets first strike, agi monster gets 2 attacks (because against AA, and AA has higher innate agi, so doesn't get the triple), the 'next fastest' monster in formation gets to doublestrike as well (once during standard order, once after regular order has finished; only for first round.)


The idea is that the agi monster in itself will get multi-strike (which I think would be fine given that most agi monsters are pretty weak; only exceptions being marbas and dcc, and bayard to a lesser extent); and this multi-strike would work for as long as the monster is alive (so how about a team of 5x agi(20)s?)

*also, the whole 'next fastest' thing would be an interesting thing to tweak with those 'high innate agility' monsters like paimon and selene etc... also it'll be a nice feature for those hybrid AA/A team, because the next fastest monster to the agi would almost certainly be an AA. if all monsters in the formation have equivalent hidden agi score; the one highest on the roster [i.e. leader] that has the 'tied for first' score gets doublestrike.
i.e. leader: A1 mon, A2 mon, AA1 mon, agi(20) mon, AA2 as 5th; AA1 gets doublestrike
leader: AA1, 3 more AA mons, agi(20); AA1 gets doublestrike

Anyways, this shouldn't affect similarly matched teams whatsoever. (e.g. this idea would have 0 effect on battles between teams that have a 5 or less difference between their agi, just for those circumstances where's there's a dramatic difference, or total lack of agi on one side)


all these numbers are hypotheticals, i'm not sure what the best balance would be, I think it would probably work better on the absolute agi level of the monsters (innate % from agi skill) difference, but there doesn't appear to be a ton of documentation on what hidden agi levels are. Anyways, that's just the general idea of how it should work; but the bottom line is there really should be something more to agi than simply comparing it to the other guy's agi.

i.e.
agi(20) vs no agi
should not be exactly the same as
agi(20) [with a boost for being the attacker] vs agi(20)

larry378 wrote:TL:DR Larry is nuts.

I'm starting to think you need to code your own game, the ideas you throw out are interesting but can you IMAGINE if A Team tried to implement that?? Our phones would MELT.

as someone who HAS run paimon in my formation, and for quite a while, i can tell y'all that he most certainly does NOT have any higher innate agi of any sort. he never attacked out of order for me, and when i was running him, he was NOT my leader. part of the misconception about some of the higher innate agility monsters comes from comparing maxed level monsters to non-maxed level monsters. i have noticed that when i run a not quite yet maxed A+ monster in a team that is otherwise maxed level, regardless of where in the formation i have it, the unmaxed monster always goes last. this was most noticeable when i first added SDM+ to my form. while he was unmaxed, he went last, after my asura+, DEN+, djinn+, and even pit+; once i maxed his level, he stopped going last, and went into his proper place in the attack order.

Armitaage wrote:as someone who HAS run paimon in my formation, and for quite a while, i can tell y'all that he most certainly does NOT have any higher innate agi of any sort. he never attacked out of order for me, and when i was running him, he was NOT my leader. part of the misconception about some of the higher innate agility monsters comes from comparing maxed level monsters to non-maxed level monsters. i have noticed that when i run a not quite yet maxed A+ monster in a team that is otherwise maxed level, regardless of where in the formation i have it, the unmaxed monster always goes last. this was most noticeable when i first added SDM+ to my form. while he was unmaxed, he went last, after my asura+, DEN+, djinn+, and even pit+; once i maxed his level, he stopped going last, and went into his proper place in the attack order.

ya, idk how that whole innate agility thing works. I had a paimon for a while and didn't notice anything. I've just heard something about higher innate agi monsters (namely paimon and selene), I don't claim to know how it works, or even attest that such a system exists, but I'm rather sure I've heard something about some monsters having higher innate agi ON THIS FORUM quite a few times.

Scratch102 wrote:

larry378 wrote:TL:DR Larry is nuts.

I'm starting to think you need to code your own game, the ideas you throw out are interesting but can you IMAGINE if A Team tried to implement that?? Our phones would MELT.

lol fair enough, but I still think they should add some more things so that having a good team is more than looking up and buying of the standard cookie cutter formations, but actually involve some tactics and thought.

I know this isn't going to happen, but some manner of wide-proliferation of an untradable 'my random soul" as in skill change souls; perhaps as intermediate event rewards (say floor 800 or so), where people get a soul that basically gives a monster a random skill (with obvious exclusions or extreme rarity; hb, at, cl, agi, etc...). there could also be another "random soul" which IS tradable and is harder to get (weekly ranking?) that can also work on AAs, (the my-version will only work on non AA; for balancing reasons since giving people semi-free reign to skill-change 1 A per event if they made some progress shouldn't be as cataclysmic as everyone skillchanging AAs)

Or some sort of slightly more advanced "attack order" commands than attack lowest hp, attack leader, etc.... things like target special ability (hb, at, cl, vb, heal, revive), or individual monster attack orders (I want these two to attack leader, and these three to attack lowest hp), target highest def, att, etc...

At a bare minimum; they could add formation shortcuts; so you can save say 4 or 5 formations, and use a dialogue screen similar to what they have on the dragon wall [which will now also pop up before you fight someone after you hit 'battle' you need to press use this formation to attack, because now sometimes when you're fighting, and you find someone with agi, and want to swap your agi; you need to go and find them all over again afterwards] and that other wall event where it shows your form, stats, and says use or change, and simply adding some button to the formation selection screen to save and load formations.
When you have a bunch of monsters and full formations, the 'sort' commands are pretty useless, e.g. what if you have 25 +m monsters, the sort by highest to lowest level and highest to lowest rarity aren't all that time saving!

I heartily agree with your last post. Specifying formations and choosing at the point of engagement would be a nice change.

One thing I never understood, the option to attack monsters with skills... WHY? Is that only for low level battles or something? I mean, it isn't like I can go up against another team and try to kill their DED monster before it casts DED...so like... what is the point??


*EDIT* you are still nuts though. See Exhibit A: Your sig image... NUTS

oooh they should do 2 new skills

dispel - cancels out dea/ded/guild down done against your monsters, can counter up to 30% of attack and defense reduction at (20), so if they have maxed dea/ded/guild down, it'll hurt but if you have maxed dispel and they only have dea/ded or guild down it'll counter it completely

debuff - cancels out their ipa/ipd. does up to 20% at (20), so full ipa/ipd will still give 5% boost after being debuffed. also does some little stuff to critical and dodge rate

I think these should be semi-rare like heal, dodge, and health up, but not super rare like the species downs!

It also shouldn't be too imbalanced or anything since these skills don't do anything unless your enemy has the relevant skills (ipa/ipd/ded/dea)!

It'd be fun to switch to these when you're against a team you know has a bunch of these, or only using one against a team that only has 1 set of these! like using dispel is probably better against sin demons since they have dea/ded/covert down; but only ipa and no ipd... but on the other hand, you would use debuff against winged brutes since they have ipd/ipa, but no dea or ded

JessicaMD wrote:oooh they should do 2 new skills

dispel - cancels out dea/ded/guild down done against your monsters, can counter up to 30% of attack and defense reduction at (20), so if they have maxed dea/ded/guild down, it'll hurt but if you have maxed dispel and they only have dea/ded or guild down it'll counter it completely

debuff - cancels out their ipa/ipd. does up to 20% at (20), so full ipa/ipd will still give 5% boost after being debuffed. also does some little stuff to critical and dodge rate

I think these should be semi-rare like heal, dodge, and health up, but not super rare like the species downs!

It also shouldn't be too imbalanced or anything since these skills don't do anything unless your enemy has the relevant skills (ipa/ipd/ded/dea)!

It'd be fun to switch to these when you're against a team you know has a bunch of these, or only using one against a team that only has 1 set of these! like using dispel is probably better against sin demons since they have dea/ded/covert down; but only ipa and no ipd... but on the other hand, you would use debuff against winged brutes since they have ipd/ipa, but no dea or ded

actually a good idea. a better idea is restricting them entirely to A/+ rank; not allowing them for any AA/+/AAA/+ monsters. if they release them into the popular teams, on fairly high attack monsters, all the best a+ teams gonna run ipa, ded, agi, dispel, debuff, lol. way i see it, i definite plus.

oh haha wow, I just found out what the "8==============>" means

Lol, what did you think it means? Frankly, I'm surprised that the mods ain't changed the thread's name, lol.

I said I would if they saw fit