Covert AA+ Build path / Hybrid Wyrms? ...bit of a short story too :(

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Covert AA+ Build path / Hybrid Wyrms? ...bit of a short story too :(

Post by Scratch102 on Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:35 pm

So I've read through the thread Larry ran and I'm in a similar boat (more like a dinghy) but wondering about a good build path.

Let me preface this by saying I'm only lvl62 so this is some early work to get ready for the post-80 onslaught of huge players who will honor-point farm me to death.

I have a covert winged wyrm team, and recently had the AA+ team in my sig below. My long term goal is to get a full AA+ Winged Wyrm team with the 5x combo, but that is a long ways away.

I partially decided to try to sell off my AA+ team and save up the EP to get a Wingarm+, then set that as a leader for my hybrid team. In doing so I traded my Dru+m(20) for a Marbas+m(20) thinking an agi card maxed would sell better than Dru who is a bit...used. Sitting and trying, again and again, with no sales...I hover on the rank chat and last night happen upon a live auction (I was 2 sheets to the wind already) for a fresh wingarm. I bid and bid...and don't recall what happened next but I ended up in the morning with a wingarm in my gift box and less ep than I recall having. So a win for me buying below the going rate of 80ep.

The kicker...I had just changed my mind and was going to stick with my current AA+ team, get another Dru to max out, finish maxing out my Demo+(20), and just slowly build a decent AA+ mixed species team and call it a day.

So now I'm sitting at a cross-roads. I could keep working on selling my wares, and get a second Wingarm...or flip the new wingarm for a profit (decent one at that I hope) and keep improving my original team.

Plan A: Team would be -- Odin+, DBE+ Dru+, Demo+, last spot either AsCast or Terra ...Guild/Level/Rarity

Plan B: Team would be -- Wingarm+, Demo+, Terra+, Sky+, Mesh+ ...Guild/Winged/Wyrm

For plan A, I could use my new Wingarm to sell/trade and get 2 lower end AA+ like a new Dru and/or Taksaka? Or what?

(Going off the party calc so no idea if this is legit)
Plan A: Attack is 78k and def is over 90k which makes me happier, hp like 75k or so. This is if I add in Dru and Tak.
Plan B: Attack is 88k, but Def/HP are just sad...below 60k

There is also the incoming AAs from the 5mil event... and I also have all 3 of the AAs from VL so I could add in the Covert Crawler with Dodge for just doing legwork to level.

So basically I'm kinda lost as to what to do next. I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination, just trying to sell off things as I can for EP but the market is painful, so getting to a full team will be a long investment.

Appreciate any advice/suggestions. ...and I apologize about the long post.

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Re: Covert AA+ Build path / Hybrid Wyrms? ...bit of a short story too :(

Post by JessicaMD on Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:19 pm

you should totallyyyyy do wyrms

congrats on the wingarm!

I think once you have a DED AA wyrm (guild appropriate) you basically have a pretty solid foundation to work towards AA wyrms team, unless you're in tyranny in which case you have diddely. Sin gets kanna and venus to supplement banished for 3xAA in-guild, and cov has demo and terra easily.

If I'm not mistaken the covert AA wyrm route is pretty clear cut, since covert is like the most wyrm-oriented guild around

Wingarm, DOD, Vanity, Demo, Terra(or lind or mesh or sky, or skillchange terra? idk)

but if you have wingarm already you should definitely go for the 3AA/2A OPtion B you were talking about. Also because I think the wyrms retain value much better than the dru/butt cast/odin/dbe in the long run since there's a healthy market for +m(20) AA wyrms where ppl will want to pay, but not so often for +m(20)s of not-so-popular AAs

last but perhaps most importantly, the wyrms look realllllly nice. Razz


so I think you should go for option B, and then work towards getting a DOD, and eventually a Vanity as a cherry to top the cupcake

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Re: Covert AA+ Build path / Hybrid Wyrms? ...bit of a short story too :(

Post by verbalkintify on Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:09 pm

TLDNR

Buy Carbuncles

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Re: Covert AA+ Build path / Hybrid Wyrms? ...bit of a short story too :(

Post by Scratch102 on Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:19 pm

Carbuncles:

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Re: Covert AA+ Build path / Hybrid Wyrms? ...bit of a short story too :(

Post by Terecon on Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:20 pm

I myself am going the 3AA/2A wyrm formation with Wingarm, Demo, Terra as the AA's but I have a choice between Lind, Mesh, and Sky. Which of the three A's should be the odd one out?
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Re: Covert AA+ Build path / Hybrid Wyrms? ...bit of a short story too :(

Post by Armitaage on Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:23 pm

if you're going for a hybrid, i'd say mesh is the odd one out. certainly not lind, give up the agi ONLY after you are ready to turn into a 5x AA+ team. given that your team is still heavily attack oriented, ipa is a better option than dea, imo, and eff the slight loss of stats from using sky. the ipa will really help the AA+s out, since they're going first.

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Re: Covert AA+ Build path / Hybrid Wyrms? ...bit of a short story too :(

Post by Scratch102 on Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:19 pm

Agreed....kinda?

I personally plan to use Sky and Mesh (IF) I go that route, and use Lind to swap in for any times I attack a team with an obvious AGI swapped in.

If the team I attack is a 5xAA then there's no need for Lind. Defensively...no idea. Lind may help fend off any A+ teams but good 5xAAs will still stomp on this form with the lack of IPD/HP+

...kinda why I still look at Dru and possibly adding Cont. Dev into a mixed 5x AA+ team...

LOL we should change Monster Corp. to "OMFGWTFBBQCOVERTHALP"

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Re: Covert AA+ Build path / Hybrid Wyrms? ...bit of a short story too :(

Post by Terecon on Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:23 pm

My vote for name change is "Carbuncle Slumber Party."
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Re: Covert AA+ Build path / Hybrid Wyrms? ...bit of a short story too :(

Post by larry378 on Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:50 pm

well. the tricky thing to assess about AA/A team skill optimizing is based primarily in what you are planning on fighting with your formation.

in the realm of pure A; IPA and DEA are maximally utilized

and for AA; IPD and DED

due to the offensive skew of A stats, and defensive for AAs

In general; if possible you should have at least one offensive(IPA/DED) and one defensive (IPD/DEA) skill; however the fact that you are using a covert AA/A wyrm form gives you the option of modularity.

In fact, the vast majority of A and AA/A wyrm forms have a high degree of modularity which lets you switch a monster or two based on what you're planning to fight.

Especially with agi in AA/A forms. When you're fighting someone who does not use agility; that lind(20) is just a waste of space; swapping it for a maxed planet dragon isn't a bad idea at all. But since you're covert; it might not be a bad idea to keep lind around; it's easy for me to swap my lind for a neptune since that adds another AA retaining wyrm/wing combo while replacing an A whose skill wouldn't be contextually applicable; but losing covert combo might make the lind/planet swap less effective for your situation.


You should look at your team as;

Wingarm
Demo
Terra
Lind
Sky (when attacking)/Mesh (when logged off)

When you're not first striking; your IPA/DED is a total waste; and you need SOME skill to absorb a first round attack.

When you're attacking, you want to do as much damage as possible in round 1 to minimize the number of attacks they can make next round.

having IPA on defensive is generally a moot point since for all intents and purposes; EVERYONE has agi(20). Or at a bare minimum; anyone# who would attack an AA/A agi hybrid team has an AA/A agi(20) hybrid team or a 5AA

Now I can definitely say that an adequately skilled 3AA/2A wingwyrm team can crush absolutely ANY A formation*

The tricky thing comes down to fighting lower-end full AA teams. which once again a 3AA/2A can beat sometimes, but a 4AA/A (replacing lind with planet) can beat most low end AA teams decisively.

Ultimately, wyrms cannot defend against high-end full AAs. hell, high-end 5AA can't defend against high-end 5AA; at top level it basically becomes whoever attacks first wins; because even the "optimal" formation of all time will lose to itself when defending.

But I guess what I was trying to say in all this is if you can choose only one; I would go with mesh. DED(20)+wing+species+agi confers a ton of killing power which mean you will be able to beat the vast majority of people when you're attacking, but I don't really think that IPA 20 would validate a 3AA/2A team against high-end 5AA teams so I wouldn't bother. It's overkill for A forms, and it won't really yield a significant effect against good AA.

DEA though can be a handy against similar AA/A hybrid teams though, and that little bit of defensive power could mean the difference between only losing two As in an attack salvo or losing two As AND an AA in a salvo; the latter of which usually means you lose.

#exceptions: mis-clicking, inadequate bp to field entire formation, idiot

*assuming in this situation that psy demons with vic/Covert highbp beasts/sin demons are the 'top' A teams; all of which are formations I farm on a daily basis with my 3AA/2A form; with the exception of sin since I'm sin and can't fight sin on the leaderboards but I fought some covert guy the other day on the regular random battle screen once I ran out of >1 bp ppl on rank, and he had a (20) standard demon team and I won that losing only my lind or something.
I am generalizing this to your formation because your 3AA/2A form and mine are essentially analogous: (Banished = Wingarm), (Kanna ~ Demo), (Venus = Terra), (MLD ~ Mesh), Lind

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Re: Covert AA+ Build path / Hybrid Wyrms? ...bit of a short story too :(

Post by Terecon on Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:58 pm

Great post Larry! That's great information.
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Re: Covert AA+ Build path / Hybrid Wyrms? ...bit of a short story too :(

Post by Scratch102 on Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:01 pm

Good points Larry, although you really just went right for WYRMS, not like I expected you to sing the praises of the low-end 5x AA Covert team Smile

Us Covert players also have some incoming cards that aren't fully out yet:

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Stats of this guy in AA+ will be interesting, and is it winged? (artwork looks like no...)

...and these for A+?
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So this could change the game up for us...

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Re: Covert AA+ Build path / Hybrid Wyrms? ...bit of a short story too :(

Post by larry378 on Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:02 pm

Terecon wrote:Great post Larry! That's great information.

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no problem, carbuncle tech support is satisfaction guaranteed

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Re: Covert AA+ Build path / Hybrid Wyrms? ...bit of a short story too :(

Post by Terecon on Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:06 pm

I love it Lol. And Scratch, I don't think the AA is winged (it doesn't look like it is) and that A is a creation monster so it doesn't help us as far as wyrms go.
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Re: Covert AA+ Build path / Hybrid Wyrms? ...bit of a short story too :(

Post by Scratch102 on Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:10 am

So the overall thought is to just go with Winged Wyrm hybrid and work towards a full 5xAA wyrm group?

Even though a mixed group of affordables can net better stats now, the wyrms offer modularity while allowing one to keep a 3x combo going?

What impresses me is the option of building...if I ever get to a point where a DoD is affordable, adding that into the hybrid and keeping Sky puts the team at just over 100k attack. Kinda scary.

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Re: Covert AA+ Build path / Hybrid Wyrms? ...bit of a short story too :(

Post by Scratch102 on Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:57 pm

I know...

Folks are probably like...omfg shut up and go away. I can't help it. If it gets slow at work, my mind wanders and I think of how to build something in here.

In theory I could sell off things (market suckyness aside) and if I could get a decent covert health up...

Odin, Dru, DBE... adding in say Cont Devourer, and using Demo or any other one I have... I could get near 90k attack, and be over 100k on def and health after maxing skills. OFC maxing health up is probably one of the most painful things to do. but it would be worth it...investment-wise...maybe.

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Re: Covert AA+ Build path / Hybrid Wyrms? ...bit of a short story too :(

Post by Scratch102 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:47 pm

Welp... that did it.

Demo+m(20) is done, Terra+m has been done, and now I've got Wingarm+(8 ) and going to level/skill this sucker up as fast as I can.

So...another thought as long as we are going down this road...

Covert: 10% 10%
Winged: 15%
Species: 15% 15%

Not bad... BUT

Winged: 15%
Species: 15% 15%
Rarity: 10% 10% (equal to Guild bonus)
Level: 5%

So there is a 5% boost to attack if you add in 2 other winged wyrms that are affordable BUT you lose some of the inherent guild bonus...once the party calc is working I'm going to crunch some numbers but is mixing the guild worth getting a 5x AA+ team?

(basically since I can't afford DoD / Vanity anytime in the near future)

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Re: Covert AA+ Build path / Hybrid Wyrms? ...bit of a short story too :(

Post by Deathblob on Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:07 pm

Can you get an IPA AA+ Wyrm from another guild? If not, you might be better off sticking with Sky.

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Re: Covert AA+ Build path / Hybrid Wyrms? ...bit of a short story too :(

Post by Scratch102 on Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:54 am

Deathblob wrote:Can you get an IPA AA+ Wyrm from another guild? If not, you might be better off sticking with Sky.

Ash Bahamut has IPA, which makes it somewhat pricey...

If I go that route I could snag the 2 other planet dragons / or maybe an Omni Kanna... but then I'd end up with 3x no skills, Crit+ (feh), and DED which would probably hurt the formation in the long run.

In the interim I'd have IPA, DEA, DED, Crit+ and Terra with no skills as of yet. The modular fashion of the Hybrid Covert team would let me swap in AGI, or Impulse Down, heck even Demon Down if I felt like it.

It looks like I'm at the break point where everything to complete a fleshed out team is going to be some serious EP. I'm still not even at lvl 70 so I have some time to work on this...but having a long term goal is always helpful. (and helps me avoid buying a 'deal' when I don't need it)

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Re: Covert AA+ Build path / Hybrid Wyrms? ...bit of a short story too :(

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