Need a little help converting A to AA

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Re: Need a little help converting A to AA

Post by Scratch102 on Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:35 pm

Here's some help from our Fearless Leader(tm)

...shamelessly cut and pasted from me asking him the same question:

larry378:
Generally speaking; AA/A hybriding is best done once you have at least
three AAs (to offset the losses from rarity/level combo). Fortunately,
there is a pretty cheap solution because of planet dragons

DoD/Wingarm/Terra/Quetz/Lind


is an absolutely killer team

Sky
will be somewhat of a liability when you transition to AA teams because
of how weak sky generally is. and IPD is a critically important skill
for AA in general (I'm sure you have heard the whole rigamarole about
how defense is more important for AAs, as opposed to offense for As) DED
is also going to help you negate enemy defenses which you can
capitalize on due to having a relatively high combo count with wings for
an AA hybrid team (covert, winged, wyrm); so it is somewhat more
imperative to have higher stats all around in an AA team than an
extremely comprehensive skill distribution.

(IPD/DED/Impulse
Down/Agi) will give this quite a bit of staying power (IPD applied on
three AAs), and raw offensive capacity as well (agi/wings/ded). Impulse
Down is very handy because there are so many impulse players in general.

If
you were to include sky, it would increase the attack of your overall
formation far more than terra will, but sky itself deals negligible
damage and will be 1-shotted nearly every time; and with AAs you really
want to spread damage absorption evenly so that nothing gets 1-shotted.

From there you can save up for a skill soul for terra, or wait for more covert AA wyrms to be released
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Re: Need a little help converting A to AA

Post by larry378 on Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:21 pm

hehe, thanks for the endorsement scratch.

By the way, since I said that. Vanity Dragon has come out, and is a prime candidate to replace quetz.


Also, for defensive purposes, it may be preferable to swap lind for mesh before you log out.

While using lind when attacking

bit more info about AA/Agility
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Re: Need a little help converting A to AA

Post by Scratch102 on Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:34 pm

I forgot how nasty this new AA is...someone likes Covert Wyrms:

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Re: Need a little help converting A to AA

Post by larry378 on Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:56 pm

oh, well, the el cheapo covert AA hybrid form is pretty simple; dru, odin, divinity, hazeling, dbe

dru, odin, dbe are each like 50 or less for a +m
and hazeling and divinity are pretty cheap

has a decent skill spread; ipd, imp down, dea, psy down, crit

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Re: Need a little help converting A to AA

Post by qpwoalsk on Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:48 am

for really cheap, you could just go three planet dragons plus lind and sky.
AA have more agility so with lind skill max, your aa's get to attack first you will pretty much win against all A+ teams

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Re: Need a little help converting A to AA

Post by Scratch102 on Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:31 pm

qpwoalsk wrote:for really cheap, you could just go three planet dragons plus lind and sky.
AA have more agility so with lind skill max, your aa's get to attack first you will pretty much win against all A+ teams

If you go that route and you lose the guild bonus, may as well get Fire and Ice Dragon to keep wing/wyrm and get a higher stat card.

But again it depends on what type of setup you want to do. Keeping as many combos as possible is always good as you know, Hybrid teams lose rarity and level combos outright...so it gets tricky.

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Re: Need a little help converting A to AA

Post by Armitaage on Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:40 pm

the absolute cheapest AA+ form you can possibly get is all 3 planet dragons+(Venus+, Terra+, Neptune+) and Rot Cast+ and Hall Cast+. total bp cost is 80, gets 3 combos, and has stats comparable to your current A+ form. it's one, major downside is the lack of skills. it will have 55766 atk, 65404 def, and 57829 health*, meaning that A+ teams will have a hard time with it, even without skills, what with it's def being enough that even with ded and guild downs none of the monsters will be one shottable, except perhaps terra+. the next cheapest form is Vlad+, Dru+, Taroth+, and any two of Sara+, Odin+, and Kotone+. this form actually has skills, and has higher stats, but has a higher cost, both in bp and in ep it will cost you to get one.


*as seen by an impulse player, with rot cast as leader. values will differ slightly for psycho players, leaning more toward def and less for health. covert players will have the worst time, stats will be quite a bit lower, though simply substituting assassination cast for rot cast ought to solve that issue, which will of course result in covert having health coming out the wazoo at the cost of def. either way, the form has over 60k def and damn near 60k health, making it a fairly potent form for not having any skills. with a cost of maybe 80 ep at most for AA+ not maxed, it's easy to build and to have ep left over for a spirit or two, which will make it real easy to field, and ensure that only ppl with proper AA+ forms(or ppl using one of the new AAAs) will have a chance to beat it. over all, not a bad form, despite the bad rap that it's constituents have.

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Re: Need a little help converting A to AA

Post by Scratch102 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:42 pm

larry378 wrote:oh, well, the el cheapo covert AA hybrid form is pretty simple; dru, odin, divinity, hazeling, dbe

dru, odin, dbe are each like 50 or less for a +m
and hazeling and divinity are pretty cheap

has a decent skill spread; ipd, imp down, dea, psy down, crit

Don't start yelling at me.

I keep coming back to this thread at least once a day and I keep seeing ads on the AH / Forum for some of these AA+ and it makes me itch.

So I could go out and buy up a cheap + wherever I can find on all 5 of these and have a decent starting AA+ covert team?

Just looking at EP cost vs the NOWNOWNOWIWAWNTITNOW project of assembling a team...

Terra+m (current gold sink) with a DEA skill, balparking 200+ for the skill.
Wingarm+m or any level, going for 100+ for singles and 250+ for the finished...not counting one with skills
DoD+m going for 300-400 or so??
Vanity+m going near 500+ or more?

OMFG my pockets are crying at the thought of that, and I don't even spend real money on this game!!

The first group doesn't seem to have that bad of stats, but I'm guessing that other mixes getting other combos fare much better overall? This is only what, Guild, Level, Rarity... i should just lay off the coffee.

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Re: Need a little help converting A to AA

Post by larry378 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:25 pm

Scratch102 wrote:
larry378 wrote:oh, well, the el cheapo covert AA hybrid form is pretty simple; dru, odin, divinity, hazeling, dbe

dru, odin, dbe are each like 50 or less for a +m
and hazeling and divinity are pretty cheap

has a decent skill spread; ipd, imp down, dea, psy down, crit

Don't start yelling at me.

I keep coming back to this thread at least once a day and I keep seeing ads on the AH / Forum for some of these AA+ and it makes me itch.

So I could go out and buy up a cheap + wherever I can find on all 5 of these and have a decent starting AA+ covert team?

Just looking at EP cost vs the NOWNOWNOWIWAWNTITNOW project of assembling a team...

Terra+m (current gold sink) with a DEA skill, balparking 200+ for the skill.
Wingarm+m or any level, going for 100+ for singles and 250+ for the finished...not counting one with skills
DoD+m going for 300-400 or so??
Vanity+m going near 500+ or more?

OMFG my pockets are crying at the thought of that, and I don't even spend real money on this game!!

The first group doesn't seem to have that bad of stats, but I'm guessing that other mixes getting other combos fare much better overall? This is only what, Guild, Level, Rarity... i should just lay off the coffee.

Eh, the prime argument against the 'el cheapo' I can think of is aesthetic.

Functionally speaking; it's a good formation. better than what you have currently, and you WILL have instant (well, relatively speaking in terms of how long it'll take to save up for the AA wyrm form) gratification in a much more powerful team.

The cheapest possible AA+ form that actually is worth a damn is...
dru (mystic/ipd), taroth (demon/dea), vlad (brute/ded), and 2 centaurs (guild downs oriented against whatever 2 guilds you are not)

good skill distro; immune to total invalidation by any single guild/species down

looks like ass.

dragons look nice, dragons are expensive. etc etc


personally could have gone for the above cheap team I described above; since I basically had every single one of those at some point... but I stuck with my A wyrms at that time because of... aesthetics

It more comes down to how you want to play really; when I rolled sin when I started, and came on this forum and found out that the only good formation was demons by a long shot, I was pretty disappointed since I thought they looked dumb. Hence began the long journey of weird off-brand formations like my original sin winged combo of hilda, paimon, gangrene roc, sbw, cbw... moving onto my sin hybrid winged brutes; bwod, hilda, blazing, cbw, wwe... then to sin wyrms; mld, nwd, kanna, ring, nid, and finally to my hybrid AA winged wyrms now.

Could I have had better formations at every single point along that transition? of course. could I out and buy a better team right now (the aformentioned cheap 5AA team)? yeah. but I stick with my wyrms because I like how they look, and they aren't too shabby in a battle.


so... aesthetics is a pretty shallow argument; the most bang for your buck won't look pretty, but it will serve you well.

like I said, it just comes down to how you want to play. I'm happy with a team that is decent and looks decent; and there are plenty of people with teams I consider "ugly" who attack me and win. However, I wouldn't trade my wyrms for those teams.

personal aesthetic comes into play at some degree as well

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and co. just don't really look "good" to me; but someone else may think they're great

just go with whatever floats your boat. It's what I've been doing, and sure I can't say that I have the "most powerful formation ever" but I like em

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Re: Need a little help converting A to AA

Post by Scratch102 on Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:07 am

Ugh...

Well. I guess phy can use me as a guinea pig, I seem to have committed to the el cheapo Covert AA+ team...

Just got done maxing my Terra+ to 150 (1-150 = suck)...

aaand woke up Sat. morning with less EP than I recall and a new AssCast+ along with a Dru+ sitting in my account. WTF. Ah well.

YES I know they are kinda pointless (though IPD from Dru should be useful, yes?) but having 2 16bp cards that need skills is bleh. So hopefully if I can make some EP from the 2x skill books I've got, perhaps I can get 2 other good-ish Covert AA+s and make a functional team.

At least being sub-80 it will work for a time.

I hope.

*sigh*

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Re: Need a little help converting A to AA

Post by qpwoalsk on Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:17 am

Scratch102 wrote:
qpwoalsk wrote:for really cheap, you could just go three planet dragons plus lind and sky.
AA have more agility so with lind skill max, your aa's get to attack first you will pretty much win against all A+ teams

If you go that route and you lose the guild bonus, may as well get Fire and Ice Dragon to keep wing/wyrm and get a higher stat card.

But again it depends on what type of setup you want to do. Keeping as many combos as possible is always good as you know, Hybrid teams lose rarity and level combos outright...so it gets tricky.


Ye I meant fire and Ice lol.
Believe me, 3 planets and fire ice(20) and lind(20) can win you all offensive battles against A+ teams and win most defensive battles too, not to mention you can sell fire ice and lind when you dont need it anymore for a decent price.

This form is really effective for its bp and price since attacking first your AA is able to take down any A+ with one shot (set strategy to take down lowest hp monster). The only downside is Dea messes up your strategy since if you cannot take 3 A down in the first turn, then you might lose. However most A+ teams run no dea as they all orientate towards doing damage.


As for the 5 x 16b AA team, wouldn't that still lose to any good team that runs ipa and ded?

Im pretty sure with them at (20), and your team having no agility they can take down 3 of your guys in the first turn.

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Re: Need a little help converting A to AA

Post by Scratch102 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:44 am

qpwoalsk wrote:Ye I meant fire and Ice lol.
Believe me, 3 planets and fire ice(20) and lind(20) can win you all offensive battles against A+ teams and win most defensive battles too, not to mention you can sell fire ice and lind when you dont need it anymore for a decent price.

This form is really effective for its bp and price since attacking first your AA is able to take down any A+ with one shot (set strategy to take down lowest hp monster). The only downside is Dea messes up your strategy since if you cannot take 3 A down in the first turn, then you might lose. However most A+ teams run no dea as they all orientate towards doing damage.


As for the 5 x 16b AA team, wouldn't that still lose to any good team that runs ipa and ded?

Im pretty sure with them at (20), and your team having no agility they can take down 3 of your guys in the first turn.

I think that's the basic premise behind having at least one A+ maxed with 20 agi, put them in your formation when you need to attack someone with agi on their team. Although I don't recall but it seems like defensively putting the A+ in the team on logout is pointless, since the attacker gets the agi boost...

I guess this is the fun part of the game, trying to figure out how to make your team better with the available options out there. If we all just went with cookie-cutter teams, it would get quite boring.

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Re: Need a little help converting A to AA

Post by qpwoalsk on Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:53 pm

Scratch102 wrote:
qpwoalsk wrote:Ye I meant fire and Ice lol.
Believe me, 3 planets and fire ice(20) and lind(20) can win you all offensive battles against A+ teams and win most defensive battles too, not to mention you can sell fire ice and lind when you dont need it anymore for a decent price.

This form is really effective for its bp and price since attacking first your AA is able to take down any A+ with one shot (set strategy to take down lowest hp monster). The only downside is Dea messes up your strategy since if you cannot take 3 A down in the first turn, then you might lose. However most A+ teams run no dea as they all orientate towards doing damage.


As for the 5 x 16b AA team, wouldn't that still lose to any good team that runs ipa and ded?

Im pretty sure with them at (20), and your team having no agility they can take down 3 of your guys in the first turn.

I think that's the basic premise behind having at least one A+ maxed with 20 agi, put them in your formation when you need to attack someone with agi on their team. Although I don't recall but it seems like defensively putting the A+ in the team on logout is pointless, since the attacker gets the agi boost...

I guess this is the fun part of the game, trying to figure out how to make your team better with the available options out there. If we all just went with cookie-cutter teams, it would get quite boring.


No I think a lot of people get confused by this.

Firstly I want to confirm you understand I'm saying versus A+ teams.

When your lind agi is at 20, and you have 3 AA. Your AA goes first even defensively because they have higher innate agility, even if the attacking A+ team has 20 agility.

WIth IPA at 20 as well, the 3 AA's will be able to one shot the 3 lowest hp monsters on
the enemy team before they even have the chance to do anything.

After that, then their A+ monsters will attack before your A+ monsters since they have
extra agility boost from being the attacker.

With only two A left and usually they aim lowest hp, they will simply take down your two A's.

Next turn, your 3 AA's attack first again. GG

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Re: Need a little help converting A to AA

Post by Scratch102 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:36 am

qpwoalsk wrote:Firstly I want to confirm you understand I'm saying versus A+ teams.

That part I understand, A/A+ vs A/A+ with Agi 20 v 20 the attacker goes first. Any A/A+ with 20 versus a hybrid AA/+ with 20 agi the AA's should go first, so the defender will attack and hopefully one shot.

I am in the mindset looking at the evolution past 80, where it is a lot of AA teams and people just have a 20 agi sitting in their stack to use somewhere. At that point is there any reason to make a team of 5x AA+ into a hybrid with the 20 agi A+ for defense? I'd think no...

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Re: Need a little help converting A to AA

Post by qpwoalsk on Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:50 pm

Scratch102 wrote:
qpwoalsk wrote:Firstly I want to confirm you understand I'm saying versus A+ teams.

That part I understand, A/A+ vs A/A+ with Agi 20 v 20 the attacker goes first. Any A/A+ with 20 versus a hybrid AA/+ with 20 agi the AA's should go first, so the defender will attack and hopefully one shot.

I am in the mindset looking at the evolution past 80, where it is a lot of AA teams and people just have a 20 agi sitting in their stack to use somewhere. At that point is there any reason to make a team of 5x AA+ into a hybrid with the 20 agi A+ for defense? I'd think no...

Ye high players for defensive purposes just have 5 AA+ since its assumed everyone has agi(20).

I was addressing the OP question though about not going broke while converting his A+
team into AA+'s.

I'm saying using the 3 planet dragons at least can guarantee his win over A+ teams (he won't win against AA teams anyway), and being cheap while he sells everything else and tries to buy the big 30bp+ AAs.

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