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Auction House changes

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Post by ryesteve Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:11 pm

larry378 wrote:anybody know WHY they made this change? hard evidence? circumstantial hypotheses? conspiracy theories? wild guesses?
I honestly have no clue.
I said earlier, for some reason, A Team thinks it's good for them to take gold out of circulation. That's why they've encouraged people to spend 3mil just to get their auctions seen. I don't know WHY they think it's good for them, but clearly they don't want people having too much of it.

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Post by larry378 Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:21 pm

ryesteve wrote:
larry378 wrote:anybody know WHY they made this change? hard evidence? circumstantial hypotheses? conspiracy theories? wild guesses?
I honestly have no clue.
I said earlier, for some reason, A Team thinks it's good for them to take gold out of circulation. That's why they've encouraged people to spend 3mil just to get their auctions seen. I don't know WHY they think it's good for them, but clearly they don't want people having too much of it.

I see that more as an effect than a cause...

I guess I'm more interested in the 'WHY' they want to cause that?

The only thing that I can come up with on the spot is that the DS business model receives the majority of its revenue from an extremely small group of extreme spender (100 people who spend 1k+ USD monthly) rather than a large group of minor spenders (e.g. 10k people who spend 5 USD monthly), because the resultant difficulty to max AA+s is the main secondary effect I predict from from the restriction of gold in distributed circulation, making AA+ms spike in value to where only the most affluent players can afford them, which will essentially encourage those players to up-scale their purchases, while discouraging those minor spenders from even buying at all; e.g. "fuck it, I'm not buying 10ep, I need at least 500 to get something decent"

NOTE: I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS HOW THE DS BUSINESS MODEL WORKS, I AM SAYING THAT IF THIS WAS HOW THE DS MODEL WORKS, IT WOULD EXPLAIN THE JUSTIFICATION THIS UPDATE. I DO NOT KNOW HOW THE DS BUSINESS MODEL WORKS.


oh well, I suppose there IS a plus, ranked battles should actually yield gold now, I guess how this affects me personally is a slight change in strategy where I need to stockpile sac fodder prior to gold, rather than buying/banking lots of gold, THEN buying souls to use em... I suppose having 10 souls in inventory at all time ready to use upon a battle gold windfall will be able to achieve the same results as the old way.
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Post by Lavie Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:10 pm

I think it was a really simple decision for them actually and they are only thinking of one cause/effect. Gold was intended for evolving and leveling monsters, not as a currency for trade. If you remove gold as a trade currency, the majority of trades now have to be done with cards and potions. High value cards generally have cost someone a good deal of soul points, soul points=$$. The majority of potions in the game cost someone a good deal of $$. It's all about the benjamins. They aren't seeing any effect aside from fatter wallets.

On a side note, thankfully my rl situation precludes me from lining their pockets for them. Having to be creative to get my hands on things people are paying real money for has shown me that it wouldn't be in my best interest to spend the money on the game even if I had it. I splurged and spent some hard earned ep for a couple of binding chains on the last event and was rewarded with a Horned Fighter and a no skill B card on "Epic" spawns. If those chains had cost me real money I would have been quite a bit more annoyed than I was. I can't imagine buying a dark summon pack with real money and getting things like DE Beserker and Hellscythe Mantis... I'd probably burn something down. LMAO

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Post by ryesteve Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:15 pm

Lavie wrote:Gold was intended for evolving and leveling monsters, not as a currency for trade.
But the catch-22 is that the people who need to be evolving and levelling are the ones who are going to be losing their gold. The ones who'll be winning the gold are pretty much all set.

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Post by Horg Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:16 pm

Wow too much text...but a couple of points...

1. Gold is not a zero-sum system...it is not like any economy...because gold is randomly generated from nothing by doing raids/missions/random reward. Zero Sum would entail a limited and controlled release of gold into the game. Much like production of currency, which has a lot of regulation.

2. The reason why ATeam did this is to kill banking (which was probably not something they intended to come out of the AH) and to kill alt account spam followed by buying EP with gold.

When i read the text I center on the word "disabled" in hopes that means their may be a "re-enable" option in the future, or gold added to trades/gifts.
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Post by ryesteve Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:37 pm

Horg wrote:Wow too much text...but a couple of points...

1. Gold is not a zero-sum system..
Yes, you're correct in that sense... I was referring to the gold transfers within the battling system. Despite the infusion of gold from missions and monster selling, I still don't think it's accurate to say "all players can gain gold though battling". A large portion of players will end up being big losers due to this change.

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Post by Dark Impact Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:23 pm

uhm.. about the bank idea, how bout you lose 0.5% a day? :3

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Post by faithnomorex Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:34 pm

"The amount of gold lost when defeated in battle will be adjusted."
Oh Ateam and your ambiguity... I had first interpreted this as you will basically lose nothing in battle now. Though some people on here seem to imply the opposite. I'm not sure which to expect at this point.

As for in game banking: %/day is rough. In some other games I've seen things like X% on deposit. So you would lose a fixed amount once on deposit, rather than your gold wasting away over time.

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Post by Ologolos Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:55 pm

Horg wrote:When i read the text I center on the word "disabled" in hopes that means their may be a "re-enable" option in the future, or gold added to trades/gifts.

That's true... maybe with enough complaints they will re-enable it, or modify it in some way.

Another question... how will anyone even AFFORD top auction spots, if the commission to place said spot is a large amount of gold? I don't even know what a "large amount of gold" is in the game, because I never really have any... LOL... but if battles are making it harder to retain gold, do you think this will be a problem for auctions in general? or will a 100k commission eventually be able to net you a top spot?
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Post by Horg Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:20 pm

maybe, right now after an event (Rank Reward Frenzy) it is 3 million gold to hit first apage
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Post by yinston Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:50 pm

so price of gold. going up or going down?

Cant auction so It will be harder to come by
Or
Cant auction so it doesnt have any value

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Post by Dark Impact Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:12 pm

Faith, that's an awesome idea Very Happy

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Post by God_of_War Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:26 pm

yinston wrote:so price of gold. going up or going down?

Cant auction so It will be harder to come by
Or
Cant auction so it doesnt have any value

Gold prices are crashed. Everyone who has it are selling while they can.

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Post by yinston Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:25 pm

Ouch. Glad im broke Smile

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Post by General Osf Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:41 pm

I understand there are two sides to the argument, but I like Horg idea that once you made an auction you could have the option to accept gold offers or not. I also agree to the statement: " people that need gold to improve their formations will be losing it while strong players will be hoarding". Also a strong player could create second account with strong monsta and Attk the weak for gold.
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Post by clutchjunkie Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:18 pm

Personally, I think banking is just going to be replaced by people leveling up every + monster they get. It will probably be a lot harder to find an A+ monster that isn't maxed in the future, newer people will be leveling A/AA non-plused and expecting more for them as well. You might even see C+/B+ max with people trying to justify them having some kind of value.

This all depends on what A-team does with the "adjustment" to gold you get from battles as well. They could make it more gold, less gold, raise the max amount you can have before you get "hit", or even make it so the winner loses gold but gains more honor for it. They could make it so that if you attack someone and lose it's double what you would have lost if they attacked you. So much they could do with that, and we won't really know how the game will be affected until we know where they go with the adjustment.

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Post by ryesteve Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:43 pm

clutchjunkie wrote:make it so the winner loses gold but gains more honor for it
I'm confident it's not going to be this... if it is, I'm going to make a kobold my formation right now...

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Post by kyan Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:13 pm

Well this is just a return to the day before AH where gold is useless. Back than you can get several million per battle and there is nothing to spend those gold on after you max everything. You can't stockpile as you just win/lose it back and forth. It was meaningless.

As for leveling, yes its a good way to use to gold but you run into sac fodder limit. That's how it was back than. What this change really annoys me is that now that I'm in the top 10. I have dozens of attacks a day. With the way the battle system work, defense is an impossible task. The attackers have way too many advantages. There is no way I'll have enough bp to attack everyone back unless I switch to a full bp account so basically I'm going to bleed gold slowly. Anyone who is visible on the ranking will be expose in the same way whereas if you're not on the ranking, someone finding you via battle screen is very low.

I guess I'll just donate it all to the clan but with clan facilities maxed that'll be a waste. If Ateam is looking to take gold out of the economy this isn't the way to do it. As someone said, battling for gold is a zero sum game, so all this will do is spread out the gold which makes sucking up gold via AH much more difficult for them. "Rich" players won't be spending 5+million to hit front page anymore as it is much harder to come by and so there will be more gold in the economy rather than less.

I'm assuming the adjustment is have a lower impact on gold taken from a win. Instead of 10+%, it will be lower but who knows...

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Post by bacsiha Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:25 pm

God_of_War wrote:
yinston wrote:so price of gold. going up or going down?

Cant auction so It will be harder to come by
Or
Cant auction so it doesnt have any value

Gold prices are crashed. Everyone who has it are selling while they can.

I have 14m and i divide it by half, and bank forever (when you dont receive it to your gift box, it never disappear)
at least when I have AA+, i will take gold back to max it

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Post by Jewelguy Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:54 pm

kyan wrote:Well this is just a return to the day before AH where gold is useless. Back than you can get several million per battle and there is nothing to spend those gold on after you max everything. You can't stockpile as you just win/lose it back and forth. It was meaningless.

As for leveling, yes its a good way to use to gold but you run into sac fodder limit. That's how it was back than. What this change really annoys me is that now that I'm in the top 10. I have dozens of attacks a day. With the way the battle system work, defense is an impossible task. The attackers have way too many advantages. There is no way I'll have enough bp to attack everyone back unless I switch to a full bp account so basically I'm going to bleed gold slowly. Anyone who is visible on the ranking will be expose in the same way whereas if you're not on the ranking, someone finding you via battle screen is very low.

I guess I'll just donate it all to the clan but with clan facilities maxed that'll be a waste. If Ateam is looking to take gold out of the economy this isn't the way to do it. As someone said, battling for gold is a zero sum game, so all this will do is spread out the gold which makes sucking up gold via AH much more difficult for them. "Rich" players won't be spending 5+million to hit front page anymore as it is much harder to come by and so there will be more gold in the economy rather than less.

I'm assuming the adjustment is have a lower impact on gold taken from a win. Instead of 10+%, it will be lower but who knows...

Kyan


A few things to point out about your statement:

1. If the price for top spots on the auction go down as you say, that will be great. "Poor" players may finally get a top spot on the auction. Fair is fair.

2. Why are you afraid of losing your gold in battle if it will be, as you say, "meaningless"?

3. This is a game. And it is all about competition. Meaning it is about who can win the most battles and who can rank the highest and who can win the most gold. How can that last part happen if everyone "hides" their gold.

Personally, I think banking should most definitely be eliminated and we should "play the game". We should put on our "big boy and big girl pants" and battle it out winning AND losing gold. Don't forget- while we may lose gold, at the same time we will be winning gold too. And while you may be more "vulnerable" to attacks by being on top doesn't mean that you should be allowed to bank. It's all part of the game. You made your way to the top (congratulations on a massive job well done), now be ready to defend it. It's all part of the game.

In conclusion, banking in my opinion sucks! My two cents. Thank you.
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Post by larry378 Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:59 am

Jewelguy wrote:
kyan wrote:Well this is just a return to the day before AH where gold is useless. Back than you can get several million per battle and there is nothing to spend those gold on after you max everything. You can't stockpile as you just win/lose it back and forth. It was meaningless.

As for leveling, yes its a good way to use to gold but you run into sac fodder limit. That's how it was back than. What this change really annoys me is that now that I'm in the top 10. I have dozens of attacks a day. With the way the battle system work, defense is an impossible task. The attackers have way too many advantages. There is no way I'll have enough bp to attack everyone back unless I switch to a full bp account so basically I'm going to bleed gold slowly. Anyone who is visible on the ranking will be expose in the same way whereas if you're not on the ranking, someone finding you via battle screen is very low.

I guess I'll just donate it all to the clan but with clan facilities maxed that'll be a waste. If Ateam is looking to take gold out of the economy this isn't the way to do it. As someone said, battling for gold is a zero sum game, so all this will do is spread out the gold which makes sucking up gold via AH much more difficult for them. "Rich" players won't be spending 5+million to hit front page anymore as it is much harder to come by and so there will be more gold in the economy rather than less.

I'm assuming the adjustment is have a lower impact on gold taken from a win. Instead of 10+%, it will be lower but who knows...

Kyan


A few things to point out about your statement:

1. If the price for top spots on the auction go down as you say, that will be great. "Poor" players may finally get a top spot on the auction. Fair is fair.

2. Why are you afraid of losing your gold in battle if it will be, as you say, "meaningless"?

3. This is a game. And it is all about competition. Meaning it is about who can win the most battles and who can rank the highest and who can win the most gold. How can that last part happen if everyone "hides" their gold.

Personally, I think banking should most definitely be eliminated and we should "play the game". We should put on our "big boy and big girl pants" and battle it out winning AND losing gold. Don't forget- while we may lose gold, at the same time we will be winning gold too. And while you may be more "vulnerable" to attacks by being on top doesn't mean that you should be allowed to bank. It's all part of the game. You made your way to the top (congratulations on a massive job well done), now be ready to defend it. It's all part of the game.

In conclusion, banking in my opinion sucks! My two cents. Thank you.


LMAO jewelguy, if I was a cynical person, I would think that you were employed by A-Team as some sort of PR rep, you seem to be wholeheartedly for and defensive of every single update, news story, now matter how negative a response it happens to illicit from the majority of posters.

then again, maybe you're just an incredibly positive person, or we're all sourpusses on this forum lol.




yeah kyan, I hear ya, I'm about 90 ranks below you, and I'm already rather frustrated with the prospect of gold attrition purely due to location, I don't even dare imagine what it's like for people in your position, or what it's like for migi/about2punt/kevin/jingleheimer...

the demographic that probably will be hit hardest by this are ranked players who have A-rank teams and are trying to transition to AA... It's not going to become 'impossible' per se, but considerably more difficult (stockpiling plenty of souls/fodder to liquidate upon battle windfall [i.e. one week ago, if I got 400k, I would bank it, in the future I will need to be sure I have ~50 souls on hand to sacrifice in rapid succession before I get attacked]), OR expensive (just buying AA+ms rather than leveling them ourselves)


In regard to all the concerns about this 'removing' gold from the system, it wont. It'll just be chaotic redistribution for the most part; which will affect ranked players more severely than most.


I'm interested to see what this does to the relative prices of AA regs and AA+ and AA+m, since I have a feeling that is primary gold consuming industry in-game at the moment, and the upcoming 'instability' in gold retention is certainly going to affect the ease with which AA+s and +ms are manufactured.
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Post by Jewelguy Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:48 am

larry378 wrote:
Jewelguy wrote:
kyan wrote:Well this is just a return to the day before AH where gold is useless. Back than you can get several million per battle and there is nothing to spend those gold on after you max everything. You can't stockpile as you just win/lose it back and forth. It was meaningless.

As for leveling, yes its a good way to use to gold but you run into sac fodder limit. That's how it was back than. What this change really annoys me is that now that I'm in the top 10. I have dozens of attacks a day. With the way the battle system work, defense is an impossible task. The attackers have way too many advantages. There is no way I'll have enough bp to attack everyone back unless I switch to a full bp account so basically I'm going to bleed gold slowly. Anyone who is visible on the ranking will be expose in the same way whereas if you're not on the ranking, someone finding you via battle screen is very low.

I guess I'll just donate it all to the clan but with clan facilities maxed that'll be a waste. If Ateam is looking to take gold out of the economy this isn't the way to do it. As someone said, battling for gold is a zero sum game, so all this will do is spread out the gold which makes sucking up gold via AH much more difficult for them. "Rich" players won't be spending 5+million to hit front page anymore as it is much harder to come by and so there will be more gold in the economy rather than less.

I'm assuming the adjustment is have a lower impact on gold taken from a win. Instead of 10+%, it will be lower but who knows...

Kyan


A few things to point out about your statement:

1. If the price for top spots on the auction go down as you say, that will be great. "Poor" players may finally get a top spot on the auction. Fair is fair.

2. Why are you afraid of losing your gold in battle if it will be, as you say, "meaningless"?

3. This is a game. And it is all about competition. Meaning it is about who can win the most battles and who can rank the highest and who can win the most gold. How can that last part happen if everyone "hides" their gold.

Personally, I think banking should most definitely be eliminated and we should "play the game". We should put on our "big boy and big girl pants" and battle it out winning AND losing gold. Don't forget- while we may lose gold, at the same time we will be winning gold too. And while you may be more "vulnerable" to attacks by being on top doesn't mean that you should be allowed to bank. It's all part of the game. You made your way to the top (congratulations on a massive job well done), now be ready to defend it. It's all part of the game.

In conclusion, banking in my opinion sucks! My two cents. Thank you.


LMAO jewelguy, if I was a cynical person, I would think that you were employed by A-Team as some sort of PR rep, you seem to be wholeheartedly for and defensive of every single update, news story, now matter how negative a response it happens to illicit from the majority of posters.

then again, maybe you're just an incredibly positive person, or we're all sourpusses on this forum lol.




yeah kyan, I hear ya, I'm about 90 ranks below you, and I'm already rather frustrated with the prospect of gold attrition purely due to location, I don't even dare imagine what it's like for people in your position, or what it's like for migi/about2punt/kevin/jingleheimer...

the demographic that probably will be hit hardest by this are ranked players who have A-rank teams and are trying to transition to AA... It's not going to become 'impossible' per se, but considerably more difficult (stockpiling plenty of souls/fodder to liquidate upon battle windfall [i.e. one week ago, if I got 400k, I would bank it, in the future I will need to be sure I have ~50 souls on hand to sacrifice in rapid succession before I get attacked]), OR expensive (just buying AA+ms rather than leveling them ourselves)


In regard to all the concerns about this 'removing' gold from the system, it wont. It'll just be chaotic redistribution for the most part; which will affect ranked players more severely than most.


I'm interested to see what this does to the relative prices of AA regs and AA+ and AA+m, since I have a feeling that is primary gold consuming industry in-game at the moment, and the upcoming 'instability' in gold retention is certainly going to affect the ease with which AA+s and +ms are manufactured.


For one thing, I can assure you I do not work for Ateam or any game dev for that matter. While I am computer savvy, I wouldn't know computer programming from a hole in the ground. I'm just an avid player who ranks just under 19,000 and only wins participation awards from special events.

You, along with several others commenting on this topic, refer quite frequently to top-ranking players. You, yourself, are pretty high up from what I understand from your post. Definitely way higher than me. Anyway, what about us other players who are much, much lower on the ranking totem pole? From our lowly viewpoint, this change may actually help us. It may not help us rank higher. Only honor points can. But we stand a chance of getting some decent amount of gold, thus allowing us to do more expensive sacrificing, thus helping us form stronger teams. Hey, it can help us lowlies rank higher. Stronger teams can equal more wins equalling more honor points.

Please don't forget us players on the low end of the ranking list. Thank you.
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Post by kheimon Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:18 am

Banking was a cancer to this game and A team cured it the simplest way possible. Props. Battling might become interesting now that people give more than 653 gold when you beat them.
It will suck for high rank players though. I'm only 150th atm but I might cool down my progression... I think every player should be given a personal bank of 50k + 1k/level or something like that (250k at max level).
As for the other change concerning auction filters, it will lighten up the AH by a great deal, which is a blessing.


Last edited by kheimon on Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by LeadWing85 Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:34 am

idk why people are so concerned with losing gold. to be frank, im suprised if anyone EVER attacks me. and even when i was rocking an A+ form, i was never attacked more than like once a day for the most part. why is everyone making this sound like some horror story lol. and also, yeah you cant bank, and youll lose gold if you lose, but why is no one thinking about the other end of the spectrum? HELLO, you can attack people as well that cant bank lol
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Post by Xoct Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:44 am

Pft, not everyone hid their gold, you had stupid players that didn't know any better who kept their hoard. As a result, when I happen to battle them, bam that's extra gold in my pocket and hopefully a well lesson learned for them.

Banking in Auction for me was to purposely annoy those who wrote obnoxious paragraphs in attempts to sell their overly priced cards. Come on now lets be real, who seriously prices their cards right? Everyone wants a deal, everyone wants to buy low and sell for more.

I personally enjoyed watching my accumulation of wealth grow, I wanted to feel like Scrooge McDuck with an awesome bank account FILLED with gold. I wanted to see the time I spent mindlessly clicking for Crystal Farming visually pay off. The times I'd whip people and take their money as I mentioned before, pays off to see that being added to the loot.

Oh, why not just have a good team and defend myself against potential attackers? Well I already have a decent A+ team... ain't going to get any better unless I spend 100's of Iloveyous which is not an option.

The whole taking Banking out of the picture just irks me.

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