Auction House changes

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Re: Auction House changes

Post by sokiz on Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:22 am

Not sure if anyone mentioned this but it seems max gold loss/win is capped at 30k gold now.
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Re: Auction House changes

Post by ryesteve on Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:44 pm

Defiant wrote:
ryesteve wrote:Why are you so focused on players under level 80? They're protected... so a level 70 player is actually a "high level" player in context. Under 80 and over 80 are like two separate games. Seriously, I don't think anyone here is concerned about players under 80.

Right, under 80s are insignificant and don't count as part of the player base. Sorry, my bad.
Your comprehension and arguing skills are pretty sad. But your ability to construct a strawman is first rate.

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Re: Auction House changes

Post by larry378 on Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:16 pm

Defiant wrote:
ryesteve wrote:Why are you so focused on players under level 80? They're protected... so a level 70 player is actually a "high level" player in context. Under 80 and over 80 are like two separate games. Seriously, I don't think anyone here is concerned about players under 80.

Right, under 80s are insignificant and don't count as part of the player base. Sorry, my bad.

defiant, you're being facetious, but the fact of the matter is that under 80s and people not 'on' the rankings are not affected by this at all. If you are off rank, or under 80, and say someone attacks you and you lose 200k, how is the rest of their clan going to attack you unless you post on their wall? what are the chances of a bunch of other people simultaneously hitting you in rapid succession from the random battle screen?

This event doesn't affect that category of players.

kheimon wrote:
1) Bankers filling up your auction (first pages) is probably the most frustrating thing I've experienced in this game.
This makes sense. I suppose the systemic cause of this has been identified. first couple pages of auction are predominately cash spenders (not ALL, but most of the teams/monsters on first page are expensive to assemble, or newly released, and event AAs; with the few exceptions of folks who build those over incredibly long periods of time by saving and trading, or who saved up ep for an event push over long periods of time, the volume of traffic is simply unsupportable by free players) and if they have been consistently annoyed by banking, and sending emails etc... it is perfectly reasonable for A-team to cater to their requests. The fact that this change was marketed as 'disabling of gold offering in auction house' suggests that it was a direct response to complaints about gold offers in auction house.

kheimon wrote:
2) Top ranking players can "honor juice" with a lone cast AA+ or other low bp teams, without having to fear the consequences of being defensively vulnerable. Top players should be the ones with the best teams, no the best farmers. If you're complaining that you're in the top 100 with an A+ team and therefore an easy target, well maybe you don't belong in the top 100. There were no consequences besides a bad record before (with no impact other than pride) and now there is.
lol, if I could get off the rankings now I certainly would; and if I had known that banking wasn't going to be possible, I wouldn't have made an effort to get on the rankings in the first place, but I'm up here and I have to deal with it. Come to think of it, there really are no tangible benefits whatsoever of being on the rankings, and it really comes out to be much more of a liability than anything else. In an effort to climb the rankings when it was just 'something to do' since I didn't really have the serious ep required to be competitive in actual events, I put a fair amount of points into bp so that I could field my formation twice consecutively, which leaves me in the funny position of lv80+ player with less than 400energy lol.

Although in an interesting twist, I seem to be "profiting" from defensive wins despite my initial skepticism... it seems this removal of banking has promoted some suicidal overconfidence which has been netting me 20-30k defensive gains fairly frequently, and since I log in often enough, I have the chance to spend most if not all of it before anyone has a chance to take it.

never 'honor juice'd like how you're describing, but I am aware of the practice. that doesn't really leave people 'vulnerable', because even the top players who clearly do that (jingleheimer, kevin who every now and then have a single cast+ up) have real teams that they use to defend the vast majority of the time. Secondly, with the way that honor points work, I'm fairly sure that only works up to a certain point up the rankings until the only honor you can possibly gain by bp whoring is 1 (which I suppose becomes mandatory to maintain position once you're in the top 10 or so and basically everyone except the handful of people above you and directly beneath you [even more restricted due to that bizzare same-guild attack prohibition] will only give you 1 honor anyways, so you might as well attack people with 0 honor since it's all the same as hitting someone with 25k if you have 30k)

By the way, everyone in the top 100 is an easy target. I can assuredly say that there are full AA teams above mine which I farm on a regular basis for honor; due to the way misses and critical work, having a better team is just like having a die with additional sides; a 6 sided die can still beat 10 sided die. The same AA teams who honor farm me on a daily basis do lose occasionally too.

anyways, I fear that I have digressed... What I was trying to say amidst all of the tangents is that; the rankings is something fun for players who do not posses the ep capital to compete in events. testing your team against teams ranked 'above' you is something which is far more exciting and engaging for the casual player than stockpiling ep for progs and events since the threshold amount you actually need to get any return whatsoever is rather large. Battling and climbing the rankings? all you need is to wait for your battle energy to recharge.

kheimon wrote:
3) I don't know about you, but when I was low level (where noobs battle noobs and nobody banks), I enjoyed battling a lot more because I never knew what I was gonna get. When you reached a certain level though, everybody was banking and battles became boring partly because I knew I would get a pityfull 100-3000 gold on 99% of my wins.
Admittedly, battling was more fun at lower levels, but at some point the 'big payouts' became fewer and farther between; which is the main reason I decided to start fighting folks on the rankings, since I essentially wasn't getting anything substantial gold-wise on average; I figured I might as well get some honor points. The 'random battle' screen is a nightmare to navigate too.

kheimon wrote:
4) These players were able to fully max an AA+ in a matter of minutes with a few pages of mobs in the gift box and a few millions banked. In my opinion, maxing a monster/ character's level is supposed to be hard work but maybe I'm just an old fashioned gamer.
Unfortunately, I am going to have to disagree with this one. the resources to max an AA+ in a matter of minutes can come in two ways.

1. saving up gold and souls over a long period of time, which is 'hard work' as you call it.

2. buying a ton of ep/dark summoning stuff and selling for ep; and trading that ep for gold. in which case the 'player' in question is a paying customer (likely a highly paying customer) and they are entitled to that advantage (if the recent events in which the removal of banking was done at the behest of paying customers is any indicator). which seems in perfect accordance with general business practice from A-team's perspective (look at the 'summoner grand prix')



Anyhoo, I don't agree with some of your points, but certainly understand your position; and the whole auction thing does kind of explain the whole situation now that I come to think of it.
Sorry for the wall of text, and thanks for clearing that up Very Happy

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Re: Auction House changes

Post by ryesteve on Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:25 pm

ryesteve wrote:
Defiant wrote:But those wheeling and dealing right now will, without doubt, come up with some back handed way to turn their gold into an EP making business.
Yeah, it'll go something like this: "Your formation looks a little weak. Tell you what: I'll make sure no one from the Beastly Bullies clan attacks you and steals your gold... just send me 1 ep a day to remind me"

If anyone thought I was kidding, this scenario pretty much happened exactly as outlined to a clan mate just now.

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Re: Auction House changes

Post by ryesteve on Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:51 pm

larry378 wrote: testing your team against teams ranked 'above' you is something which is far more exciting and engaging
Glad you brought up this point. This is something I will definitely miss. I'm not interested in paying 25k to see how close I am to beating the guys in the top 10.

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Re: Auction House changes

Post by larry378 on Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:27 pm

ryesteve wrote:
larry378 wrote: testing your team against teams ranked 'above' you is something which is far more exciting and engaging
Glad you brought up this point. This is something I will definitely miss. I'm not interested in paying 25k to see how close I am to beating the guys in the top 10.

well it doesn't really have to end here. You can just spend most of your gold before fighting and logging off (skill stacking, monster maxing, clan funding)... that's what I've been doing and so far I've actually been cutting a profit since this update due to the new 'confidence' in attacking ranked players in hope for gold returns. I just can't stockpile it, but cash in-flow is definitely UP.

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Re: Auction House changes

Post by Xoct on Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:42 pm

kheimon wrote:

Banking was so widespread it can hardly be described as an intellectual process, no offense.

Tell that to the people who gave me 20-40k every time I had attacked them. Some wised up and banked, others still kept giving me their gold.

Your move.

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Re: Auction House changes

Post by Bender214 on Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:57 pm

Lol, I haven't been attacked once since the update. I'm over 80.

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Re: Auction House changes

Post by Ologolos on Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:27 pm

Bender214 wrote:Lol, I haven't been attacked once since the update. I'm over 80.

I just got to level 80 and my first attack was by like a level 189 player, somebody named about2Punt (or something like that)...

affraid
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Re: Auction House changes

Post by larry378 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:11 pm

Bender214 wrote:Lol, I haven't been attacked once since the update. I'm over 80.

well lol you DO have an anna+ as your leader; arguably the most expensive monster around, and a full good AA+ team;
Most people wouldn't attack somebody who has the equivalent of a 100 foot tall golden statue sitting in front of their mansion, because someone that much richer than you probably has some pretty ludicrous firepower.

the flip-side of that is that there are a few anna led teams in 100-300 that I farm regularly, because it's pretty clear that they 'broke the bank' on that one monster and the rest of the team is joke; which is the ferrari parked in the projects equivalent where they clearly put all their money into that and all the other stuff sucks.

incidentally, bender214, where are you in terms of overall rank?

Ologolos wrote:
Bender214 wrote:Lol, I haven't been attacked once since the update. I'm over 80.

I just got to level 80 and my first attack was by like a level 189 player, somebody named about2Punt (or something like that)...

affraid

dude. that's like being assaulted by a celebrity! you could get a tv movie made and become famous yourself Razz

migi farms me lol. which was a bit more impressive when migi was #1, but hey I'm still proud to say it.

also get farmed alot by weekly rankers quite a bit.
woooooo, ladydeath, hit me nearly ever day during the last 2 weeks

ologos, your name seems familiar and I think I've seen you somewhere on the rankings, where are ya?

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Re: Auction House changes

Post by Ologolos on Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:20 pm

i don't think i have a rank... or if i do, it's astronomically high (as in 30,000) LOL.


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Re: Auction House changes

Post by larry378 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:32 pm

Ologolos wrote:i don't think i have a rank... or if i do, it's astronomically high (as in 30,000) LOL.


woah that's pretty impressive lol.

I think I know what happened;

overall rank is like an exponential curve

e.g. the difference between rank in honor points...
1000-900: 346
600-500: 602
200-100: 2944
100-1: 13332

so what happens is once you're high on the rankings, you really start running out of people to attack for significant honor point gains... and the way that the whole honor differential thing works with the steepening curve; basically anyone below rank 150 only gives me 1 honor point, so I might as well be attacking people in random battle once I've hit the last guy who gives me 2 honor (this difficulty OBVIOUSLY compounded and scaled significantly if you're in the top 10 or so).

So yeah, That's how ppl get hit in random battle by 'top players', but that's still pretty goddamn impressive lol. It does happen, but the chances of it happening to you are pretty slim! Not many unranked players can say that they have been hit by someone a top player. (wel, I suppose there are quite a few, but you don't meet them every day), so you're basically a celebrity man Razz

you can get one of those tv movie mades about the time about2punt attacked you Smile


although I could have swore I have seen your name on the rankings, although it might just be a similar name.

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Re: Auction House changes

Post by Ologolos on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:43 pm

Yeaaaah! This is so cool! Now i understand why I got goosebumps... I AM THE GOLDEN CHILD... Smile Just call me "Brother Noomsy".

Well, maybe i was somewhere in the rankings and didn't know it...
Every time i pull up that screen it says something like "out of ranking", but idk. And apparently the chances of getting hit by a top ranked player are better than the chances of summoning an AA, because I still haven't had that happen...

I like the idea of a tv movie, though... Does anyone have Kevin Sorbo's number? Or maybe Sasha Mitchell...?

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Re: Auction House changes

Post by NghiaLe on Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:01 pm

Banking needs to be implemented to allow players to plus their AA monsters. It takes a lot of monsters to get an AA monster to level 80. Also, you could use those creatures to increase the level of an AA+ monsters instead.

I propose that ATeam implement a banking system with a minimum deposit of 250,000 gold and a maximum of 6.25 million gold but you can only deposit 80% of your gold at a time. This means if you deposit 250k gold, 50k would still be available to attackers or creature sacrifices. At the high end, that would be 5 million in the bank and 1.25 million available to attacks. This will limit the loss that people have but provide people with something if they do win. Also when you withdraw, you have to withdraw everything and you can only deposit if your bank is zero. This prevents people from trying to get more than 80% of the available gold into the bank.

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Re: Auction House changes

Post by kyan on Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:18 pm

Bender214 wrote:I am for it as well.

Long overdue.

For one, the obscene amount of banking on top auctions. Having to clear 30 banks every 15 minutes just so my auction can be seen? No thanks. I love your card, I wish I had enough.. so just banking my 19k gold.

Next, there are lots of players in the top ranks who want to honor farm with 16bp AAs and low bp teams to get a top rank.. there is a price to pay. I doubt migi and punt and the bunch are worried about people farming them for gold. If you have a top team then this is a minor concern.

Ask them how often they get attacked. All of top rank teams attacked each other its only teams that gives a decent amount of honor and they get attack by everyone else who wants honor as they give the most.

Bender214 wrote:
You may get popped once in a while, but I dont know about you, but I attack a lot more people during the day than I am defending.

Well, where are you ranked? Until you're in the top 30. You don't know what's its like to be there. Every team that can beat you will attack. If you run a prog, you'll get attack by everyone else as well. You're highly visible. That's what people do, go down the list of the overall ranking and attack anyone they can beat. As defense is at such a disadvantage there are many many teams that can beat any other teams. So you get attacked far more than you can attack back with teams that are 150-170bp in cost. If you're not in the overall ranking, than you attacked far more than get attacked as finding someone via the battle system is extremely rare. My alt account who is not on any ranking rarely ever get attacked.

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Re: Auction House changes

Post by kyan on Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:57 pm

Ologolos wrote:YAnd apparently the chances of getting hit by a top ranked player are better than the chances of summoning an AA, because I still haven't had that happen...

The curve for honor gain is very extreme. For me anyone below 30 gives 1 honor. For punt its even worse. Take out the sin player and literally there are a handful of player than gives more than 1 honor. At which point, farming the random battle screen is just as effective as attacking "high rank team." Punt maintains his ranking by attacking with a full team so the chance of running into him is higher than most of the top 10.

For those than complaints about "top rank" player fielding a AA+ cast. That is in response to a broken honor system. When you get 1 honor attacking with a full AA+ team and you can get the same from a single AA+ cast well, guess what people will do. Punt is the only one who spends bp to maintain his ranking. Everyone else farms. Its the only way with the way honor is awarded unless you're willing to spend tons of bp. Its alot of work for bragging rights.

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Re: Auction House changes

Post by Bender214 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:46 pm

That's the price to pay for being at the top of the honor list. Wink in theory, if your team is good enough to be there, shouldn't worry about people gunning for you.

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Re: Auction House changes

Post by larry378 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:05 pm

Bender214 wrote:That's the price to pay for being at the top of the honor list. Wink in theory, if your team is good enough to be there, shouldn't worry about people gunning for you.

Well, theres no such thing as a 'best' team. Especially with the fact that most of the beefiest 40bp AAs are summonable.

Remember that any team will lose to itself when defending.

Toss rng into the mix and anything is possible.

I attack and defend against 150+ bp teams on a daily basis and win often enough (more often on offense obviously, but it is very satisfying to win 20+k defending a 5 AA team) similarly i attacked an unranked (after i ran out of >1 honor giver teams for my daily allotment) covert brute team the other day... all their skills were 4 or lower. I expected it to be a curb stomp battle, and i lost after my team missed 9 times (i watched and counted) and they critted 7k+ damage through dea and ipd(20) on at least three occasions.

Sure when they saw the defensive win they attacked me and lost, but the point im trying to make is that there is no such thing as a functionally invincible or 'best' team.

Even the theoretical 'best team' loses against itself on defense, and there are no monsters rare enough to have a team that nobody else can build.

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Re: Auction House changes

Post by trabic on Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:09 am

Is it a coincidence that 4 days after the last bank, they start a gold based lottery?

The optimist in me sees a decent plan to give more people a chance in the lottery, but the realist refuses to find motive in actions that can be explained by incompetence.

More evidence for a temporary disable, rather than removal of banking?

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Re: Auction House changes

Post by ryesteve on Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:53 pm

No, it's more evidence that A Team really, really, really wants to limit the supply of gold.

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Re: Auction House changes

Post by Ologolos on Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:13 pm

kyan wrote:
The curve for honor gain is very extreme. For me anyone below 30 gives 1 honor. For punt its even worse....

Punt... I'm sorry, buddy... I'd have given you much more honor for crushing my lowly team if I could.

I wonder if my guys even put up a fight... probably not -- unless one of his missed once... :sweat:
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Re: Auction House changes

Post by Fenix00 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:02 pm


who wants to take bets that after the holidays, they start selling gold in the shop after everyone has turned in their supply for this lottery.

my other conspiracy theory is that they've decided its too easy to evolve and max these AA+ teams now so they're trying to reset it as much as possible by trying to collect as much gold as possible.

oh a-team how i love to hate you ... I love you

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Re: Auction House changes

Post by larry378 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:32 pm

Fenix00 wrote:
who wants to take bets that after the holidays, they start selling gold in the shop after everyone has turned in their supply for this lottery.

my other conspiracy theory is that they've decided its too easy to evolve and max these AA+ teams now so they're trying to reset it as much as possible by trying to collect as much gold as possible.

oh a-team how i love to hate you ... I love you

Doubt it. But then predicting what A team does isnt really a science..

Ep=gold.

On average 1 energy = 40 gold from doing missions. So a 600 energy playa can get 1m by using 40ep or so. Add in monsters that can be sold and its even more.

Also the means of production of gold hasn't changed whatsoever (missions/events/raids) just the means and loss of control of exchange

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Re: Auction House changes

Post by Defiant on Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:40 am

Well, with the current event and Vagrant Lands coming up, you top dogs should be receiving comparatively fewer attacks each day.

I agree with ryesteve, it is evident that A-Team are trying to reduce the gold abundance in the game. We cannot see what they see in terms of logs/data. But my guess is they were seeing an ever growing abundance of gold in the game, which they wanted to control.

1) People continually hoarding gold in the game essentially creates an ever growing global pot of gold which never diminishes unless there is a huge gold sink that anyone can participate in. Only the top dogs, the rich and the lucky have AAs to play with. Sure you guys complain of having not enough gold to level up your AA/AA+s, but you are the minority.

Solution: Remove unintended banking (all those who wish to argue that it wasn't unintended. Argue against this: If it was intended, you'd think A-Team would create an actual bank right? It's not hard to do and they disabled the means of auction house banking).

Solution to lack of global gold sink: Create a player's lottery with enticing rewards, available to the masses at the cost of... gold.

2) Even though we have hit the 4million downloads mark, you think A-Team really believes that equates to 4mil individual players? They have lots of statistics they can pull. (League of Legends did a really fantastic breakdown of stats a few times before, if anyone has seen them before). Anyway, point is, it is without doubt they know there are dummy accounts, abandoned accounts, multiple accounts etc. But each of these accounts can accrue gold, be it from players quitting and leaving a pot of gold, multiple account farmers, gold from achievemnts etc. I've often attacked and gained 120k+ gold off players who look like they have quit.

Solution: Apply cap on amount of gold you can win from a battle.

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Re: Auction House changes

Post by larry378 on Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:44 am

Defiant wrote:Well, with the current event and Vagrant Lands coming up, you top dogs should be receiving comparatively fewer attacks each day.

I agree with ryesteve, it is evident that A-Team are trying to reduce the gold abundance in the game. We cannot see what they see in terms of logs/data. But my guess is they were seeing an ever growing abundance of gold in the game, which they wanted to control.

1) People continually hoarding gold in the game essentially creates an ever growing global pot of gold which never diminishes unless there is a huge gold sink that anyone can participate in. Only the top dogs, the rich and the lucky have AAs to play with. Sure you guys complain of having not enough gold to level up your AA/AA+s, but you are the minority.

Solution: Remove unintended banking (all those who wish to argue that it wasn't unintended. Argue against this: If it was intended, you'd think A-Team would create an actual bank right? It's not hard to do and they disabled the means of auction house banking).

Solution to lack of global gold sink: Create a player's lottery with enticing rewards, available to the masses at the cost of... gold.

2) Even though we have hit the 4million downloads mark, you think A-Team really believes that equates to 4mil individual players? They have lots of statistics they can pull. (League of Legends did a really fantastic breakdown of stats a few times before, if anyone has seen them before). Anyway, point is, it is without doubt they know there are dummy accounts, abandoned accounts, multiple accounts etc. But each of these accounts can accrue gold, be it from players quitting and leaving a pot of gold, multiple account farmers, gold from achievemnts etc. I've often attacked and gained 120k+ gold off players who look like they have quit.

Solution: Apply cap on amount of gold you can win from a battle.

It's 2012 brah, we got a black president. You cant say minorities dont matter man

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