A Wyrm Formation Question

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A Wyrm Formation Question

Post by larry378 on Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:37 am

I'm mainly asking since Mesh's stats aren't in the bestiary yet so I can't really run the party calculator

I used to do sin wyrms:
MLD, NWD, Kanna, Ring, Nid

55/43/34

Today I switched to:
MLD, NWD, Kanna, Ring, Lind*

50/38/34

What would the stats be if I added winged to the combo while retaining DEA?
with:
MLD, NWD, Kanna, Mesh, Lind


*because Lind has higher Agi; I've been skilling a Lind to back up my upcoming 2x winged/wyrm AA/A hybrid team, and today notice that Lind's Agi exceeded my Nid by a few points. I've noticed the drop of 5k attack and defense which is something I'm not too happy about, but the team is working just as well as it was before. I have a number of other Sin A+m winged wyrms, but Ring's DEA is pretty crucial to the formation's success so the best bet I see for replacing Ring and gaining winged combo is Mesh, besides I don't have impulse combo anymore so I don't suppose replacing one monster with a slightly stronger one should be fine (I'd assume Mesh > ring stats-wise for an impulse player since mesh is 23 to ring's 19bp and the way stats scale that should hypothetically negate the loss of the hidden guild 5.5)

Long Story Short; What is A/D/H for;
MLD, NWD, Kanna, Mesh, Lind


Thanks in advance

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Re: A Wyrm Formation Question

Post by SwtLaotiaNix7 on Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:51 am

Ring has higher atk than mesh i believe

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Re: A Wyrm Formation Question

Post by Armitaage on Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:09 am

a/d/h for MLD, NWD, Kanna, Mesh, Lind with NWD as leader is approximately 57k/38k/36k as seen by an impulse player. even though stats are not in the bestiary, a player kindly posted them in another thread in this section so finding the max atk stats can be done.

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Re: A Wyrm Formation Question

Post by larry378 on Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:53 pm

Armitaage wrote:a/d/h for MLD, NWD, Kanna, Mesh, Lind with NWD as leader is approximately 57k/38k/36k as seen by an impulse player. even though stats are not in the bestiary, a player kindly posted them in another thread in this section so finding the max atk stats can be done.

Thank You Smile

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Re: A Wyrm Formation Question

Post by SwtLaotiaNix7 on Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:03 am

I sort of have a similar setup...with MLD NWD Kanna Sky and Lindwurm.

I am thinking about replacing NWD for Mesh, as I really want to keep Sky's Increase Party Attack skill, and I think the drop off in Attack from NWD to Mesh might be equalized by a fully maxed DEA skill. What you guys think?

Anyone have a A/D/H on MLD Kanna Sky Lindwurm Mesh team?

edit: Me being Sin Guild...you think it's worth the loss of 5.5% bonus to every sin monster?

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Re: A Wyrm Formation Question

Post by SwtLaotiaNix7 on Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:23 am

Ahhhhh while im brainstorming, what if subbed out sky dragon for fire n ice dragon....ahhhh the possibilities of a hybrid team.........

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Re: A Wyrm Formation Question

Post by Armitaage on Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:00 pm

don't know if fire n ice stats are out, but mld, kanna, sky, lind, and mesh are around 5k less atk than nwd, mld, kanna, lind, and mesh, so personally i wouldn't run sky, despite the loss of ipa. just my personal opinion.

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Re: A Wyrm Formation Question

Post by larry378 on Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:50 pm

Armitaage wrote:don't know if fire n ice stats are out, but mld, kanna, sky, lind, and mesh are around 5k less atk than nwd, mld, kanna, lind, and mesh, so personally i wouldn't run sky, despite the loss of ipa. just my personal opinion.

I agree with this


Impulse wyrms in particular are defensively oriented. IPA isn't particularly crucial or helpful for them.

IPD/DEA is. IPA on impulse wyrms is like IPD on sin demons; not worth the inconvenience.

also sky is a relatively weak monster stat-wise, while your goal with impulse wyrms is to make sure each and every one absorbs as many attacks as possible per round, defending the rest of the formation; therefore having a 1-shottable monster is a liability.

To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't even recommend what I'm doing in terms of hybriding (MLD, NWD, Kanna, Ring, Lind); I'm just doing that because my lind has 4 more agi levels than my nidhogg, However, if you're skilling up that lind for a future AA wyrm team, then go ahead.

I decided not to go with mesh btw, I figure in the time and resources to get mesh's skill up to Ring's level would be about the same time and resources to actually finish maxing my AA+ wyrms so I can start using em with Lind. So I'm playing it 'fast and loose' with my current formation since it is mainly place-holding.


If you're in it for the long haul though...

MLD, NWD, Kanna, Mesh, Lind

is probably the best hybrid impulse-oriented team available at the moment (arguably NWD or Kanna could be swapped for magma, but magma is bp inefficient, and not to mention cost inefficient in terms of acquisition (magma is the sdd/selene of impulse wyrms)) Because of the winged bonus, and inclusion of agility.

pure impulse wyrms are pretty handy in a fight in the vast majority of circumstances, until you run into certain defensively oriented formations...

Only two really come to mind that I try to be wary of;
~140bp (covert beasts)
cov mystics (IPA, IPD, DEA, DED) (tita, glam, renegade, dverger)

both of which are damn near impossible to even scratch; beasts for having a team bp and stat output akin to full AA teams, and the mystics in particular after they decrease your already low attack, and boost their own defense.

Therefore, the addition of winged +15% could be a lifesaver against either of these two formations

frankly, I sub two winged impulse wyrms for my Ring and Lind when I attack covert mystics (since they don't have agi), and that 15% attack is the difference between winning and losing.

With impulse wyrms you need to make sure to have; IPD, DEA, AGI; the rest really doesn't matter, so if they come out with a winged impulse IPA wyrm one day, you should certainly use it, however Sky dragon is going to be more of a liability than an asset to an impulse wyrm team in general

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Re: A Wyrm Formation Question

Post by SwtLaotiaNix7 on Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:42 pm

Thanks for input

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Re: A Wyrm Formation Question

Post by kyan on Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:56 pm

But if you're going hybrid anyway. I'll go for the high attacker instead of the tanking strategy. You lose guild bonus of 10% def 10% attack. By going hybrid, you get the skills to go for a blitz form. Fire and Ice is an improvement on Sky. It has higher attack and other stat so if you're not restricted to covert go for that. I have fought several sin wyrm with covert winged wyrm. My covert team destroy them.

imo ipa is absolutely worth it. 25% attack is huge. that adds on top of everything else included winged. The only team that I made without ipa is sin beast and there was no option for that. Sin beast has high enough attack on its own without it. sin wyrm does as well but if you're going hybrid than you're giving up attack and defense bonus, i would absolutely take ipa in its place.

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Re: A Wyrm Formation Question

Post by JessicaMD on Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:11 pm

I didnt know fire and ice had ipa!

So... is there such a thing as a good psycho-oriented hybrid winged wyrm team?

I guess the only ones which definately have to be there are...

Fire and Ice
Lindwurm

Who would the other three be? Tiamut maybe for the skill

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Re: A Wyrm Formation Question

Post by SwtLaotiaNix7 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:41 am

So if I wanted to keep ipa.. what would the ideal team be? Me being sin guild

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Re: A Wyrm Formation Question

Post by larry378 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:26 am

SwtLaotiaNix7 wrote:So if I wanted to keep ipa.. what would the ideal team be? Me being sin guild

with fire/ice and lind taking 2 spots...

you want
nwd, mld, kanna

they are 3 highest attack winged impulse wyrms

would be the 'blitz' team kyan was talking about


but honestly, cov wyrms are the offensive wyrm form. it's not surprising that cov winged wyrms beat the sin wyrms. even if both are +m(20), cov has imp down, which with ipa is basically ded and dea against sin wyrms. and cov is generally higher bp; a.k.a. stronger when skills are equal; and pure sin wyrm skill distribution only can really get ipd/dea which imp down/ipa totally negate those completely making it a bp fight which cov wins with sin wyrms already poor attack dea 'd by imp down

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Re: A Wyrm Formation Question

Post by kyan on Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:09 pm

The cov wyrm team has low bp. Around 95-96 even lower if you put in hellfire. It wins because of it has better skill combination to go with winged. It can get ipd/dea along with ipa and agility and a little imp down to boot. Honestly I don't bother leveling imp down or demon down. Its too expensive and this team doesn't need it.

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