vagrant lands formation guide (work in progress, contributers appreciated)

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vagrant lands formation guide (work in progress, contributers appreciated)

Post by larry378 on Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:33 pm

NOTE: Quotes sections are contributions made by others to this guide, Sincere Thanks!

Keep a close eye on your wallet, and stay off the streets at night, because it's time for Vagrant Lands!




If you are most people (and most people are), you have a go-to formation, statistically speaking, they're probably 100bp and demons!

That's all well and good, and I have no doubt that they serve you well in climbing the rankings, shooing off potential attackers, and delivering and soaking up damage when it counts.

Similarly to the mobius event. Vagrant Lands will involve bosses that will depend far more on your formation's raw attack power than their ability to effectively synergize skills and utilize agility.

You have before you an excellent opportunity to prepare yourself a specialist team for the event, thanks to the one week advance notice, as well as the wonderful sacrifice discounts which are happening.

It is high time to build a bp efficient offensive formation.

Below are a few that come to mind, but I very much look forward to more submissions of efficient offensive formations, and contributors will certainly be credited. In particular, I am interested in hearing what kind of efficient psycho and covert formations are out there, as I think I've got sin "in the bag" so the speak (or in the case of this event; "in the bindle"), but any suggested improvements would be greatly appreciated.

Let's get started shall we?

Impulse

Winged Brutes:

Traditional
Despair, Blazing, Hilda, Scorn, Cruel
62k/86bp
Efficiency Rating: .72


Discount
Wretched, Blazing, Hilda, Scorn, Cruel
58k/81bp
Efficiency Rating: .71

Winged Demons:

Traditional (for reference purposes, this is NOT an efficient formation)
Balrog, Endless, DDD, Abyss, Paimon
65k/103bp
Efficiency Rating: .63

Adapted (Don't let your balrog go to waste! I know many of you have one, and it can be used just as efficiently as the below team even though he is a high bp fella)
Balrog, DDD, Ripper, Abyss, Beelz
62k/90bp
Efficiency Rating: .70

Discount
DDD, Paimon, Ripper, Abyss, Beelz
61k/87bp
Efficiency Rating: .70



Psycho

Brutes:

Traditional (for reference purposes, this is NOT an efficient formation)
Hope, Valk, Clarissa, SGQ, WWE
49k/85bp
Efficiency Rating: .57


Low BP Winged Brutes
WWE, Clarissa, Oppression, WWO, SWW
50k/76bp
Efficiency Rating: .66

Low BP Brutes *
Gigas, Elf Cmdr, WWO, Pure Light, Clarissa
45k/68bp
Efficiency Rating: .66

*(arguably inferior to low bp winged brutes, as efficiency isn't
everything! due to defense stat on bosses, a certain amount of raw
attack power is required to validate an efficiency rating! e.g. a 1bp
team that deals 1k damage is NOT a good team, because post-defense, that
would be negligible)

Special Mentions

80bpAA team (includes bp combo bonus)

3 casts, 1 dragon of your guild type, 1 other dragon (casts have base atk at 9.9k, dragons at 8.1)
57atk/80bp
Efficiency Rating: .71

5x prog team

Event Horizon wrote:this is pointless. There is no guide needed. No full team stands up to a single prog in a bp per attack ratio. Get 5 prog s and you're set. Easy as that.


Effective Affordable Prog utilization

JessicaMD wrote:
progs this time are actually good species; psy brute, cov beast, sin dragon, so they'll actually fit on teams with minimal shenanigans like combo losses, instead of what they seem to do more often with the totally random species progs that are like an invitation to attack when you see one as someone's leader since they break all combos Razz

This is one of those rare occasion where progs are appropriate species to be effectively used with popular species formations.
Stacking combos with your prog is a great way to maximize your offensive power.

The progs are...
Aya; impulse wyrm +m4.8k atk, 6x to 28.8k
Inos; psycho brute +m4.8k atk, 6x to 28.8k
Ogame; covert beast +m4.8k atk, 6x to 28.8k

for calculation purposes, the offensive increase will be denoted as an addition of 5x prog+m (24k) attack added to formation final attack (assuming the 6x attack is not subject to combo bonuses) e.g. prog with rarity and level combo will have... +10%, +5% modifiers on the initial 4.8atk, as opposed to on the 28.8k attack score. I don't know for a fact that this is how it's going to work, but I believe it is a safe assumption. The following teams are oriented to be low bp, and consist of highly affordable monsters to complement your prog


Impulse
Aya, Ladon, mars, nidhogg, ring
46k+24k=70k/83bp
Efficiency Rating: .84

Psycho
Inos, WWO, Elf Cmdr, Pure Light, Gigas
45k+24k=69k/67bp
Efficiency Rating: 1.02

Covert
Ogame, Sky Navy, Creep Lord, Centarus, Armored buc
36k+24k=60k/75bp
Efficiency Rating: .80

NOTE: These are non-optimal formations designed with pricing in mind.

If you already have a sin wyrm team, a psycho brute team, or a covert beast team. DO NOT BUILD THESE FORMATIONS. They are likely inferior to your standard formation with a single member substituted for prog.

E.G. adapted covert beasts

kheimon wrote:
I will personally be trying out my beast team I've
been working on, with green prog fitting nicely into it (taking
bucephalus's place since skills don't activate against raid bosses).
Hoping to deal somewhere around 90-95k damage with that form for 140 bp
cost.

Ogame (prog)
Scorch
Sentinel
Bayard
BSK

This team will wreck some damage!

although 95k/140bp is a .67 efficiency rating, the pure attack power involved bestows a degree of defense penetration that absolutely justifies the low efficiency rating


However, this may not always be justifiable... e.g. in comparison to the sin wyrms described above
Aya, NWD, MLD, Uranus, Nidhogg
54k+24k=78k/100bp
Efficiency Rating: .78

losing .06 efficiency for a gain of 8k attack in not recommended.
note however, these prog forms are generally more effective than non-prog formations in terms of efficiency rating. However, not by much, with psycho being the best due to the abundance of low bp attack-oriented brutes such as WWO, while sin wyrms and covert beasts are somewhat more difficult to optimize due to the large amount of higher/high bp wyrms and beasts.


Last edited by larry378 on Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:56 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: vagrant lands formation guide (work in progress, contributers appreciated)

Post by Event Horizon on Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:04 pm

TBH.. this is pointless. There is no guide needed. No full team stands up to a single prog+ in a bp per attack ratio.
Get 5 prog+s and you're set. Easy as that.

If this event is like Mobius.. and it probably is. Atk is the ONLY thing that matters.

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Re: vagrant lands formation guide (work in progress, contributers appreciated)

Post by mydroid4 on Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:09 pm

Event Horizon wrote:TBH.. this is pointless. There is no guide needed. No full team stands up to a single prog+ in a bp per attack ratio.
Get 5 prog+s and you're set. Easy as that.

For those who want to spend 400 ep (100ep per + and 50 per reg) or money for ds you are right. For those that dont put money into the game, this article is a wonderful idea.

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Re: vagrant lands formation guide (work in progress, contributers appreciated)

Post by larry378 on Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:09 pm

Event Horizon wrote:TBH.. this is pointless. There is no guide
needed. No full team stands up to a single prog+ in a bp per attack
ratio.
Get 5 prog+s and you're set. Easy as that.

If this event is like Mobius.. and it probably is. Atk is the ONLY thing that matters.

You're absolutely right! I must have completely forgotten that everyone either has or will have all progs. How narrow minded of me to assume that some folks might not Razz

sincere apologies

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Re: vagrant lands formation guide (work in progress, contributers appreciated)

Post by Event Horizon on Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:11 pm

You're suggesting that people make new formations (that they aren't already using) specifically for this event.. That will be more expensive than 1 prog. o.O
They are cheaper than you think.. and the market is overflowing with them.

Your most efficient team:
Despair, Blazing, Hilda, Scorn, Cruel
62k/86bp
Efficiency Rating: .72


Despair+ is rare.. 30-40ep
Blazing.. 10ep
Hilda+ is rare.. 10-15ep
Scorn and Cruel are cheap though.


Last edited by Event Horizon on Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: vagrant lands formation guide (work in progress, contributers appreciated)

Post by larry378 on Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:14 pm

I'm fairly sure that each of these formations is cheaper than a single prog+

hence the discount forms... made up of stuff we all have lying around, and otherwise cheap to assemble.


oh well, I added your suggestion to the header post so people can see that one too


EDIT: I concede that the bwod form may be a little out of reach for some players' budgets. I just happen to have that one lying around so I put it in as it is rather efficient.

This is more about the 'discount' formations.

And more about psycho/covert discount formations in particular since a few clan members had that question, and I decided not to respond by saying "JUST USE PROGS INSTEAD", so I'm hoping to exchange some information about discount impulse forms for discount psy/cov forms


Last edited by larry378 on Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: vagrant lands formation guide (work in progress, contributers appreciated)

Post by mydroid4 on Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:20 pm

I believe the idea is not to go buy the new formation. What is actually trying to be said is that your high bp formation that you normally use is not as efficient for this type of event. Take Sin demons for instance. You do not need agility for this event so if you have a beelzebub somewhere you can swap them and increase (because you get the winged combo) your attack.

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Re: vagrant lands formation guide (work in progress, contributers appreciated)

Post by Event Horizon on Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:27 pm

Right now you can get a sin+ for 50ep. A covert+ for 30ep. Easily. Prices will drop even lower before the event starts.

A single prog.. Has an efficiency of:
35k atk (if not more)/18 = 1.9444.
That is NEARLY TRIPLE of.. ANY of your formations.

Anyone who is serious about doing this event should get one..
And honestly I don't see the point of such a guide. If you don't have ep.. and you already have monsters lying around.. put the highest attackers per bp usage together.
You should know about combos and etc.. if you've read anything on the forum at all.. Winged is 15% to atk. Species is 15% to atk too. Same guild is another 10% to atk. Same Rarity is another 10%. Same lvl is another 5% to atk. Same as your guild is ANOTHER 5.5% to atk with the achievement maxed. Divide the attack you get by their combined bp and you get your efficiency.
Do you really need a guide to determine that? Sorta lazy..

Take Sin demons for instance. You do not need agility for this event so if you have a beelzebub somewhere you can swap them and increase (because you get the winged combo) your attack.
And you need a guide to realize that beezlebub has higher atk than pit? Shocked

Basically.. you can sum up this guide in a sentence. Ignore skills and use the highest attacking monsters that you have per their bp usage.


Last edited by Event Horizon on Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: vagrant lands formation guide (work in progress, contributers appreciated)

Post by larry378 on Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:34 pm

well, first of all, if you're paying 50ep for a sin+ you're overpaying.

I'm glad that you guys are the top clan on the forum with multiple rankings and all, and I have no doubt that you have a far more nuanced understanding of the game than me, could beat my form, have higher rank, etc etc...

This guide is not for your benefit.

By extension of your logic, why bother with any advice about A+ forms, when you can just say "get a 5xAA+ form you filthy plebians, it's clearly better"

This is like going into a driving school, slapping a stack of paper out of the instructor's hands and turning to all those teenagers and foreigners and saying "YOU GUYS ARE STUPID, THIS IS EASY"

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Re: vagrant lands formation guide (work in progress, contributers appreciated)

Post by verbalkintify on Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:42 pm

Helps me. I snag one monster and have one if the most efficient formations. Also have 5 EP to my name so way easier to trade up to what I need than a prog.

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Re: vagrant lands formation guide (work in progress, contributers appreciated)

Post by Event Horizon on Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:44 pm

I'm not paying 50 for sin+, though many people are, but mydroid said something about paying 100 for it. Razz

Well.. this is a lot simpler than formations. It's based on a single stat. Attack. One stat. And then you divide that by the bp that the monster(s) use.
Maybe you are right, but I would like to think that the members of this forum are capable of doing simple math. You seem to be saying that they can't and require an entire guide..
Moreover.. the difference in efficiency is very small and you are not considering that higher lvl bosses have higher def. Thus.. in those situtations.. higher bp and atk teams.. like the commonly used best sin A+ demon team.. with lower 'efficiency ratings' can be more efficient.

Do you want to add something else to your guide showing the efficiency in those situations? This seems like too much work for too little gain. But.. Go ahead. Razz


Last edited by Event Horizon on Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:00 pm; edited 6 times in total

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Re: vagrant lands formation guide (work in progress, contributers appreciated)

Post by JessicaMD on Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:51 pm

Event Horizon wrote:I'm not paying 50 for sin+, though many people are, but mydroid said something about paying 100 for it. Razz

Well.. this is a lot simpler than formations. It's based on a single stat. Attack. One stat. And then you divide that by the bp that the monster(s) use.
Maybe you are right, but I would like to think that the members of this forum are capable of doing simple math. You seem to be saying that they can't and require an entire guide..

lol there are people at level 60 who ask "what is ep?"

and there are also lots of new players, who come onto forums LOOKING for information, like some people might not even know about some monsters even existing! Like if they had 4/5 of a formation, and were just using something totally random as a 5th member while there was really a 5ep monster that could give them a bunch of combos.

It's also nice to have everything consolidated rather than every single person having to go through the bestiary and do the math by themselves!


Come on, have some patience for us newbies lol Razz
I bet lance armstrong doesn't go an heckle middle schoolers for needing training wheels

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Re: vagrant lands formation guide (work in progress, contributers appreciated)

Post by larry378 on Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:03 pm

JessicaMD wrote:
I bet lance armstrong doesn't go an heckle middle schoolers for needing training wheels

hehe personally I would heckle middle schoolers for needing training wheels

elementary should be alright, but middle school? I'm pretty sure other middle schoolers would be making fun of them too Wink

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Re: vagrant lands formation guide (work in progress, contributers appreciated)

Post by Event Horizon on Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:04 pm

Ok ok. lol. I'm not the one writing it after all. But do read what I added in red. As this will affect your guide. Razz

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Re: vagrant lands formation guide (work in progress, contributers appreciated)

Post by JessicaMD on Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:05 pm

larry378 wrote:
JessicaMD wrote:
I bet lance armstrong doesn't go an heckle middle schoolers for needing training wheels

hehe personally I would heckle middle schoolers for needing training wheels

elementary should be alright, but middle school? I'm pretty sure other middle schoolers would be making fun of them too Wink


lol! fair enough, should have said "young children" I guess Razz

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Re: vagrant lands formation guide (work in progress, contributers appreciated)

Post by larry378 on Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:15 pm

Event Horizon wrote:Ok ok. lol. I'm not the one writing it after all. But do read what I added in red. As this will affect your guide. Razz

I gotcha, already said something about that in the first place as a side-note to the low bp psycho unwinged brutes, denoted with a *.

"efficiency isn't everything! due to defense stat on bosses, a certain amount of raw attack power is required to validate an efficiency rating! e.g. a 1bp team that deals 1k damage is NOT a good team, because post-defense, that would be negligible"

The free first attack is also a good time to use a high bp team. Once I actually finish maxing them (which this next week of sacrifice discounts really helps), I know I'm going to be using my AA+ wyrm form for first strike on bosses that I trigger



Anyways, I'm still hoping for some contributions about affordable psy and cov bp efficient forms, and I think I've covered the best ones for impulse (didn't really do an exhaustive search of bestiary, just went with the monsters I recalled being high att low bp winged demons, and I already had the brutes lying around)

so c'mon people, let's hear about those cov/psy forms!

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Re: vagrant lands formation guide (work in progress, contributers appreciated)

Post by mydroid4 on Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:56 pm

Someone mind pointing me in the direction of a sin prog+ that doesnt cost more the 50 ep then?

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Re: vagrant lands formation guide (work in progress, contributers appreciated)

Post by SwtLaotiaNix7 on Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:59 pm

Anyone know if Increase Party Attack skill will effect how you do against bosses?

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Re: vagrant lands formation guide (work in progress, contributers appreciated)

Post by kyan on Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:14 pm

First off this is premature lol. You're assuming it will be exactly like moebius age. It very likely will be but there might be tweaks where skills and def stats comes into play. It did against the bosses in dragon wall so its not inconceivable.

Secondly the most efficient formation is a 1bp formation. That's ~4.9k for 5bp or a efficiency of 1.0. (my formation was not the most optimal one, higher efficiency for the optimal formation). That team worked really well for me for the early bosses up to around lv6-7 in moebius. Wipe the floor with them for next to no cost and no prog necessarily. If the boss doesn't have defense, this the the team to go with, almost as good as the prog.

Unfortunately they do and since the boss go up to lv41 this time, you almost have to have a prog to participate if the boss stat has the same progression as in moebius. Even my full AA+ max team was hitting the lv30 bosses for not that much in moebius due to the high defense.

I also use a low bp demon team pit, beel, faith, gluttony and firebrand that I happen to have from a previous tournament event. So leveling another team isn't a waste. It can often be recycle to other events. It isn't that efficient at ~.5-.6 but still not bad. Beats most standard team.

Lastly, it is useful for people to know that swapping in winged members to their standard teams often vastly improve their efficiency. It doesn't take much to convert a sin demon into a winged demon and you likely have those guys lying around anyway.

I did fairly well in the moebius event without ever buying a prog or even swapping from ep to bp. I got a ton of skills and several bp30 A like kat and leth so it is a useful guide if somewhat premature. Smile

Kyan


Last edited by kyan on Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:10 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : correct math error.)

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Re: vagrant lands formation guide (work in progress, contributers appreciated)

Post by kyan on Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:15 pm

SwtLaotiaNix7 wrote:Anyone know if Increase Party Attack skill will effect how you do against bosses?

Since the event hasn't come out. No one knows for sure except maybe the devs. In moebius age, it did not.

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Re: vagrant lands formation guide (work in progress, contributers appreciated)

Post by Ssage on Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:06 am

I wasnt around for Moebius so I am a bit confused about your 1bp startegy Kyan. So you mean I just use like 5 violet fairy's or something? Do I need to max them? Or am I missing something, thanks for the info and the thread!

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Re: vagrant lands formation guide (work in progress, contributers appreciated)

Post by kheimon on Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:03 am

I think progs will be pretty cheap for this event for 2 reasons:
1) Dual summons campaign: raises both number of DS performed and prog chance
2) No-event interlude: when event starts, progs will have been around for a few days, enough to bring their prices down quite a bit.

Except for the sin prog, the other two now sell below 20 ep for a reg and I wouldn't be surprised to see them at 10ep for a reg over the weekend.

I will personally be trying out my beast team I've been working on, with green prog fitting nicely into it (taking bucephalus's place since skills don't activate against raid bosses). Hoping to deal somewhere around 90-95k damage with that form for 140 bp cost.

Ogame (prog)
Scorch
Sentinel
Bayard
BSK

This team will wreck some damage!

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Re: vagrant lands formation guide (work in progress, contributers appreciated)

Post by kyan on Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:04 am

Ssage wrote:I wasnt around for Moebius so I am a bit confused about your 1bp startegy Kyan. So you mean I just use like 5 violet fairy's or something? Do I need to max them? Or am I missing something, thanks for the info and the thread!

I was using reaper of the red sea+, scarlet fairy+, scarlet fairy, reaper of the red sea and reaper of the green sea+ as sin all max level. I get winged, bp bonus. I happen to have them around.

A better formation would have been reaper of red sea+, scarlet fairy+, reaper of green sea+, veridrigris fairy+ and reaper of the blue sea+ where you get winged, bp, level and rarity, you lose achievement on 2 but the bonus from level/rarity and higher stat more than make up for it.

If you use 5 of the same monsters you don't get the bonuses so its better to not use 5 violet fairies.

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Re: vagrant lands formation guide (work in progress, contributers appreciated)

Post by JessicaMD on Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:49 am

kheimon wrote:I think progs will be pretty cheap for this event for 2 reasons:
1) Dual summons campaign: raises both number of DS performed and prog chance
2) No-event interlude: when event starts, progs will have been around for a few days, enough to bring their prices down quite a bit.

Except for the sin prog, the other two now sell below 20 ep for a reg and I wouldn't be surprised to see them at 10ep for a reg over the weekend.

I will personally be trying out my beast team I've been working on, with green prog fitting nicely into it (taking bucephalus's place since skills don't activate against raid bosses). Hoping to deal somewhere around 90-95k damage with that form for 140 bp cost.

Ogame (prog)
Scorch
Sentinel
Bayard
BSK

This team will wreck some damage!

That sounds like a great team!

I like the fact that the progs this time are actually good species; psy brute, cov beast, sin dragon, so they'll actually fit on teams with minimal shenanigans like combo losses, instead of what they seem to do more often with the totally random species progs that are like an invitation to attack when you see one as someone's leader since they break all combos Razz

I think i'm going to try something similar, well, it won't be nearly as hard-hitting, but what I currently have are the traditional psy winged brutes, and also a 128bp psy demon team (which is probably horrendously inefficient). So I think I'll try get one of those psycho progs later this week near event start once there are a few more around and prices have gone down, and just pop it into my winged brutes team.

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JessicaMD

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Re: vagrant lands formation guide (work in progress, contributers appreciated)

Post by Armitaage on Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:59 am

First off, even if this thread is a bit premature like kyan said, I can hardly believe that those posts were made by you, Event Horizon. Normally you're a very good contributor but these posts make me wonder. Some of us don't have ep to spring on even single reg progs, let alone a prog+, a prog+m, or a full team of 5x prog+m. For those of us that fit that description, this thread is invaluable, and a very good idea. It is also a time saving idea for those who come to the forums to learn, especially to learn how to take full advantage of the vagrant summons of this event to get all those skilled Bs and As and don't have the time to invest in messing with the bestiary trying to come up with a good substitute for a 5x prog+m team.

ATM I don't have the time to research viable teams for other guilds, but I definitely will in the next few days, and make an additional post here to help larry out with some more data.

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General of Sinnerz
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Max Lvl Party Calc*, Sacrificing Guide & Formation Guide by yours truly


*needs testing with certain teams to ensure quality. also, monster data doesn't update itself without me logging on to manually add monsters, yet, so some of the newest monsters might not be available for use right away. Missing max lvl stats WILL affect final stats, so make sure to pm me with screenshots of it whenever you want to add data.
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Armitaage

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Re: vagrant lands formation guide (work in progress, contributers appreciated)

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