Summoning types and their possible results

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Re: Summoning types and their possible results

Post by Horg on Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:06 am

100 A Rank summons, average BP of 13.4, best summons were Scrap Meat Zombie and Elite dragonborn, worst was blood blob...lol...Most seen monster was a tie between slaughter bee queen and Pabilsag. All monsters were As, no AA yet.
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Re: Summoning types and their possible results

Post by blah on Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:12 am

As an aside, I did get a Lightning Bug from an A rank summon(a couple weeks ago), so they're not all bad.

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Re: Summoning types and their possible results

Post by blah on Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:23 am

Additional comment:

Don't insult Rank A summons. They're quite decent actually.

My last 5 summons: Dream Breaker Priest(okay, but not horrible), Slaughter Bee Queen(unsurprising), and Time Void Golem(hard to insult), Crystal Dragon(Pretty good), and a Pit(not that impressive).

Overall, though, pleasing results. 1/2 the summons were at least decent.

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Re: Summoning types and their possible results

Post by xalthos on Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:24 pm

Where does an event summon fall into this scheme?

For the last bingo event I summoned a Vlad from a bingo summon, I guess they aren't so bad then.

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Re: Summoning types and their possible results

Post by Psa1m 144 on Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:32 am

Great thread, just what I was looking for.

On a side note:
Is this the first time they have taken away the free dark summons for new accounts?
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Re: Summoning types and their possible results

Post by blah on Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:56 pm

Case you guys are wondering, I'm working on getting through 80k ally points worth of summons right now and recording the results... I'll post the results when I'm done. It'll depend on how much gold I can farm out of people, though.

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Re: Summoning types and their possible results

Post by kyan on Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:19 am

jusbao wrote:
kyan wrote:Do the rank A summon really summon almost all the As? From doing 50+ rank A summons, I'm not sure I got anything above 20bp. They were all old monsters as well. None of the recent ones.

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From the A summons I've kept track of, I've never gotten any of the newer ones. The last A summon I received from dragon wall event got me a Quetz, but most of the others weren't very good either. I did notice the A summons from the dragon wall yielded me more 18+bp creatures than A summons I got before. May just be chance though.

I did 20 A summon after dragon wall and got nothing above 20 bp. The 20 bp I got was scrap and fbf.

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Re: Summoning types and their possible results

Post by kyan on Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:32 am

blah wrote:Additional comment:

Don't insult Rank A summons. They're quite decent actually.

My last 5 summons: Dream Breaker Priest(okay, but not horrible), Slaughter Bee Queen(unsurprising), and Time Void Golem(hard to insult), Crystal Dragon(Pretty good), and a Pit(not that impressive).

Overall, though, pleasing results. 1/2 the summons were at least decent.

Its a matter of perspective. Compare to what it use to be, A summons are junk now. Most of us older player are a little frustrated that Ateam keep changing the summoning tables particularly those of us that safe them from previous events. When A summon first appear they were awesome, you get the entire A table, better than a DS. It seems that table haven't been updated since or the chance of the newer As are so low as to be virtually unnoticible. Seems like they are doing the same thing to the free dark summons and epic dark summons.

As an aside, anecdotal evidence suggest that free DS is definitely not the same as soul point ones despite what Ateam say. Their info/help section is notoriously out of date and the summoning tables keep changing. I'm pretty unlucky when it comes to lottery type thing. Never got more than 2 numbers on the DS lottery event but I have use more than 100 free dark summons are and no AA whereas I know alot of people have gotten multiple AA from soul points summons on far less DS. One clanmate got 4 AA from one session, granted he brought 20-30 DS but still.

The event special summons like bingo seems to be similar to an epic dark. Several people have reported getting AA from it. Seems more common than just a AA but that's conjecture on small sample size. The text accompanying those summons is also similar to an epic dark.

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Re: Summoning types and their possible results

Post by blah on Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:33 am

blah wrote:
My last 5 summons: Dream Breaker Priest(okay, but not horrible), Slaughter Bee Queen(unsurprising), and Time Void Golem(hard to insult), Crystal Dragon(Pretty good), and a Pit(not that impressive).
1/2 the summons were at least decent.

This is what I got from my last 5. I think they're not too bad...

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Re: Summoning types and their possible results

Post by kyan on Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:52 am

blah wrote:
blah wrote:
My last 5 summons: Dream Breaker Priest(okay, but not horrible), Slaughter Bee Queen(unsurprising), and Time Void Golem(hard to insult), Crystal Dragon(Pretty good), and a Pit(not that impressive).
1/2 the summons were at least decent.

This is what I got from my last 5. I think they're not too bad...

They are not bad but all of them are bp20 and below. They newest among them is crystal dragon which came out months ago. Crystal appears about half way among the psycho A. Even subtracting all the event limited As and lords. That's still 30-40% of the table missing or at a vanishingly small percentage.

All I'm saying is that I'm feeling a frustrated at Ateam for punishing me for not using my summons the instant I get them. I save them as I already have what I wanted from the current list and was looking to use them to get new monsters but apparently that's isn't going to fly as I'm summoning from the same table. I would have been much better off to use them right away and sold those monsters for ep as I'm getting the same monsters from these summons months later but they are all worthless now as new monster replace them. Would have gotten 50-60 ep for a fbf and scrap back than. They are maybe 2 now?

/end rant

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Re: Summoning types and their possible results

Post by blah on Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:16 am

Lol Kyan I see your point. But, I would like to point out that there really aren't that many non-event 20bp and up monsters. From the bestiary(Using somewhat old-ish data(I removed all the monsters with any special tags in the bestiary)), we have this list:

Marbas+
Magic Light Dragon+
Death Call Covenant+
Vicissitude Colossus+
Sea of Clouds Dragon+
Hell Ice Dragon+
Quetzalcoatl+
Rampage Gargoyle+
Brave Pharaoh+. Unsummonable?
Lightning Bug+
Blood Quencher Sekhmet+
Devil of Endless Night+
White Wing Sky Pirate+
Jiangshi Fighter+
Labyrinth Minotaur+
Slave Dance Sorceress+
Raging Vritra+
Vert Vucub Caquix+
Charon of Hatred+
Underdark Dvergr+. Unsummonable?
Moonlight Selene+
Dragon Knight of Ruin+. Unsummonable?
Colossus of Origin+
Nether World Dragon+
Elite Dragonborn+. Pretty sure this is unsummonable.
Time Void Golem+
Forsaken Birth Fiend+
Punisher Sphinx+. Unsummonable?
Fairy Doyen Tita+. Pretty sure this is unsummonable
Lost Woods Leshy+
Scrap Meat Zombie+
Aspidochelone+

That's less than 32 monsters 20 bp and up, compared to about 62 monsters 19 bp and down. Almost all the new A/A+ monsters since I started playing a couple months ago have either been progs, ally/other random monsters, or rewards from events. It's at least a 2-3:1 ratio, plus if A-Team slants the tables a little, it'll probably produce what we're seeing though.

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Re: Summoning types and their possible results

Post by kyan on Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:47 am

blah wrote:Lol Kyan I see your point. But, I would like to point out that there really aren't that many non-event 20bp and up monsters. From the bestiary(Using somewhat old-ish data(I removed all the monsters with any special tags in the bestiary)), we have this list:

Marbas+
Magic Light Dragon+
Death Call Covenant+
Vicissitude Colossus+
Sea of Clouds Dragon+
Hell Ice Dragon+
Quetzalcoatl+
Rampage Gargoyle+
Brave Pharaoh+. Unsummonable?
Lightning Bug+
Blood Quencher Sekhmet+
Devil of Endless Night+
White Wing Sky Pirate+
Jiangshi Fighter+
Labyrinth Minotaur+
Slave Dance Sorceress+
Raging Vritra+
Vert Vucub Caquix+
Charon of Hatred+
Underdark Dvergr+. Unsummonable?
Moonlight Selene+
Dragon Knight of Ruin+. Unsummonable?
Colossus of Origin+
Nether World Dragon+
Elite Dragonborn+. Pretty sure this is unsummonable.
Time Void Golem+
Forsaken Birth Fiend+
Punisher Sphinx+. Unsummonable?
Fairy Doyen Tita+. Pretty sure this is unsummonable
Lost Woods Leshy+
Scrap Meat Zombie+
Aspidochelone+

That's less than 32 monsters 20 bp and up, compared to about 62 monsters 19 bp and down. Almost all the new A/A+ monsters since I started playing a couple months ago have either been progs, ally/other random monsters, or rewards from events. It's at least a 2-3:1 ratio, plus if A-Team slants the tables a little, it'll probably produce what we're seeing though.

A lot on this list are event limited. Maybe bp isn't the best argument but newness. I don't summon the new less than 20bp As either. The progs are not event limited, they are summonable but you don't see them (not that I really want to see them as most recent prog are pretty worthless after the event unlike the old events one like asura, paimon and balrog).

Inspire by your work I went and did a thorough list which reminds me I should go back and edit the notes section more carefully for new players who rely on it to tell what's event limited. I came up with 78 20bp or less A and 33 20bp+ A that should be summonable. So that's a ratio of 3:7 so its not as rare as what people are reporting even granting that the chance at a higher bp monster decreases. It seems to be that above 20bp the drop off is really steep. Getting old 20bp like fbf, scrap, leshy seems pretty common but old above 20 like bay, lewd and asura almost never (I don't know of any but it probably happens if you can get sea of cloud and quetz).

If using newest as a criteria with crystal dragon as the cutoff, I get 54 As that appear with crystal or before. I'll leave off monsters from the last two events, there are 48 that appear after so they should be approximately 50:50 even if the later ones are generally higher in bp so are harder to summon. They shouldn't be as low as reported.

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Re: Summoning types and their possible results

Post by uziDIDit on Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:48 am

Sionzris wrote:So i want to create a table with information on summons and their probability. Here goes:

Rank \ Summon Type: Ally Points Summon Ally Invite Summon Rank B Summon Rank A Summon Free Dark Summon Dark Summon
C Most Most - - - -
C+ Most Most - - - -
B Common Common Most - Most Most
B+ Common Common Most - Most Most
A Rare - Common Almost All Common Common
A Event Progression - - - - Common Common
A Special Evolved - Rare - - - -
AA - - Ultra Rare Super Rare Very Rare Very Rare


Updated. I will also try and update it for any even like the Ally Invite Campaign. If you have % for any spot, post as well plz. Hard evidence only plz. No: "I heard of a guy".

You forgot EPIC DARK SUMMON

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Re: Summoning types and their possible results

Post by Sionzris on Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:49 am

I didnt forget, i just dont see them and no one gives any intel on them.

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Re: Summoning types and their possible results

Post by kyan on Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:43 pm

Of the 10-15 epic dark I did. I have gotten only rank A. A few junk ones including an epic blood blob and a few high bp one. Its either a dark summon minus the Bs or a better rank A.

On a separate note, out of 100+ ally point summons I got,
Low bp A = 1.7%
B/B+ no skill = 4.2%
B/B+ with skill = 3.4%
rest is C/C+.

The ratio of B to B+ is the same with or without skills.

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Re: Summoning types and their possible results

Post by blah on Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:07 pm

So far, out of 165 summons(and counting):

12 B's, 9 B+, 3 A's, for a total of 7 skilled monsters. All the A's have skills, so 4 skilled B/B+.

Rest are C/C+. I'll release once I finish saccing, which could take a while(because costs are rising for me to dispose to balrog).

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Re: Summoning types and their possible results

Post by kyan on Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:07 pm

blah wrote:So far, out of 165 summons(and counting):

12 B's, 9 B+, 3 A's, for a total of 7 skilled monsters. All the A's have skills, so 4 skilled B/B+.

Rest are C/C+. I'll release once I finish saccing, which could take a while(because costs are rising for me to dispose to balrog).

similar ratio to what I'm getting. You're getting a bit more B than me. They will probably average out for larger sample size.

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Re: Summoning types and their possible results

Post by faithnomorex on Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:55 pm

It seems as though you both forgot to list how many AAs you got. Should be around 2-3%, correct? /sarcasm

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Re: Summoning types and their possible results

Post by kyan on Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:42 pm

I got a bunch of summons off of the last 2 events and has more data to report if anyone is interested.

Despite what I see posted recently, my rank B summons still gives about ~50% with skill. Out of 48 summons, 20 have a skill. Not quite 50% but not far off.

For rank A summons, I gone through 100 and the average bp is 13.8 with nothing above 20. Only two 20bp ones and they are leshy and fbf. I'll reiterated my earlier argument that A summon is not the full table, nothing from after crystal dragon and lindwurm and nothing higher than 20bp. There has been report that you can get higher bp or more recent monsters than crystal dragon but if its true the frequency much be so low as to be comparable to getting a AA off of a dark summon.

Did 22 epic dark summon as there was request for info on this. The average bp was 14.5, all A with some high bp/recent monsters. Got a blazing and a hell ice off of it. The most recent monster is demon bait insect so I'm pretty sure its the full A table. Not sure if current events progressions are summonable via epic dark. I haven't heard of anyone getting it but than the sample size is quite small.

Also did 6 special summons, the bingo etc... type and got 2b+ with no skill, 2 b with skill, djinn and cruel. Seems like a dark summon maybe but very small sample size.

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Re: Summoning types and their possible results

Post by sweet jesus on Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:52 pm

kyan wrote:I got a bunch of summons off of the last 2 events and has more data to report if anyone is interested.
Despite what I see posted recently, my rank B summons still gives about ~50% with skill. Out of 48 summons, 20 have a skill. Not quite 50% but not far off.

For rank A summons, I gone through 100 and the average bp is 13.8 with nothing above 20. Only two 20bp ones and they are leshy and fbf. I'll reiterated my earlier argument that A summon is not the full table, nothing from after crystal dragon and lindwurm and nothing higher than 20bp. There has been report that you can get higher bp or more recent monsters than crystal dragon but if its true the frequency much be so low as to be comparable to getting a AA off of a dark summon.

Did 22 epic dark summon as there was request for info on this. The average bp was 14.5, all A with some high bp/recent monsters. Got a blazing and a hell ice off of it. The most recent monster is demon bait insect so I'm pretty sure its the full A table. Not sure if current events progressions are summonable via epic dark. I haven't heard of anyone getting it but than the sample size is quite small.

Also did 6 special summons, the bingo etc... type and got 2b+ with no skill, 2 b with skill, djinn and cruel. Seems like a dark summon maybe but very small sample size.

Thanks for the info. Very interesting compilation of data. I have about 16000 ally points to burn. Maybe I should add some info?

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Re: Summoning types and their possible results

Post by sweet jesus on Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:53 pm

blah wrote:Case you guys are wondering, I'm working on getting through 80k ally points worth of summons right now and recording the results... I'll post the results when I'm done. It'll depend on how much gold I can farm out of people, though.

Did you ever get through all of those ally points? Very interested in the data.

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Re: Summoning types and their possible results

Post by kyan on Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:46 pm

Also burned through ~30 free dark summons. They have definitely downgraded those. No progs at all. Considering the rate that progs are appearing in the soul point dark summon, I should have gotten at least one. Before they separated the soul point from the free dark summons. I regularly get progs from the free ones. They really sux now. Half are skill B, half A, a few high bp one but definitely far more skill B than they use to. /sigh

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Re: Summoning types and their possible results

Post by blah on Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:34 pm

Lol, I kind of got lazy after summon 356 and gave up recording.



C/C BB AProgAASkilledTotal
87.252126.2322954.2492922.2662894.815864
3082215817353


But here's the aggregate data anyways.

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Re: Summoning types and their possible results

Post by sweet jesus on Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:17 pm

blah wrote:Lol, I kind of got lazy after summon 356 and gave up recording.



C/C BB AProgAASkilledTotal
87.252126.2322954.2492922.2662894.815864
3082215817353


But here's the aggregate data anyways.

Well, that's honestly better than I would have expected. Almost 1 in 20 Ally Point summons had a skill.

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Re: Summoning types and their possible results

Post by blah on Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:09 pm

Note: in my count, A's are included under the skilled category. So, 9 of the skilled monsters were B/+ monsters.

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