Clan Wars (Clan Event)

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Re: Clan Wars (Clan Event)

Post by borix on Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:47 am

Ok thank you that is good to know.

Still I know what I saw so at least with this one opponent something went wrong.

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Re: Clan Wars (Clan Event)

Post by MoRandi on Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:50 am

Only main form is used, to me it happened that always, i had no surprises.
As for the personal CP to achieve a reward is a little overload, i dont agree for no participation and get the reward, but i dont agree those ammounts aswell, best would be to give rewards to each player that did a little thing to help the clan out, atleast that his fights assured a clan victory, but not depending by the ammount spent.
For example i use a form of 143 BP, with 143 bp energy (1 battle per bp) i used aprox 15 BP and 26 My 100 bp and have only 1700 CP so even if i helped my clan to win 2 matches, i will not get any reward, that sucks and if i can turn the time, i wopuld have not participate, the things were the same, since u get no XP or gold, but with some bp in my inventory...

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Re: Clan Wars (Clan Event)

Post by Wetoddo on Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:01 am

K, my clan has 27pts and 17747cp. We are ranked 87th! We had 2 losses and less than 10,000cp before last rankings. I am the highest lvl at 99 and have a crap AA+ form. Most of the clan is lvl50 with incomplete forms. How did we get ranked this high? After reading posts, I can't believe we are ranked so high. Really we are a noob clan, leader has maybe done 2 fights.

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Re: Clan Wars (Clan Event)

Post by cure4blues on Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:27 am

well my clans ranked like 283 and have 500k CP so blah, I only have 3k so if we rank top 11-100 Id be set for AA

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Re: Clan Wars (Clan Event)

Post by Wetoddo on Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:31 am

well we are going to lose again. second time after last rankings. wife and I were hoping for the AA but the two of us can't win every fight.

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Re: Clan Wars (Clan Event)

Post by Scratch102 on Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:00 am

The matching between clans has A LOT to do with your rank standing from the previous 1pm EST tally. We were in the mid-200's after 1 loss and our win streak just went on and on and WHOA all of sudden we are a top #10 clan with a low total CP figure compared to what MANY of you are reporting. (Plus we have about 50% participation, bleh)

Since that rank yesterday, we are getting hammered. 2 losses by choice, and one fight we duked it out and won (much more exciting). I am going to guess that by 1pm today we'll drop back down out of the top 10, which is fine for us since we are not trying for the AAA, but the difference between the competition levels is astonishing.

Leads me to think we WILL see more of this style of event.

Think about it. By the end of the event there will be minimal MyBP left in anyone's pockets, and many, MANY credit card bills from the top groups buying BP (or however it is done). Influx of cash for GTeam? Heck yes this will get rerun, hopefully with more notice next time.

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Re: Clan Wars (Clan Event)

Post by borix on Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:30 am

At this moment I have no idea if the clan I am in atm is able to rank. We have had fights that were a laugh but also ones were the opponent crushed us. They simply generated so much cp in the first 10 minutes that it was impossible to catch up without spending all our bps.

Only few were (maybe only 1) were actual fights.

We just had a fight with an opponent that I think was pretty strong. Stronger then us if they had any bps. But we won because only 1 was actually fighting. I had a fight with a team where the prog was not set as leader so I got lucky.

This all makes it hard to predict what rank we will be able to reach. Does not matter much to me because I also hope I can get an AA summon (top 3000) or even the sin beast AA + AA summon (top 1000) with my individual cps. But hopefully we will also be able to rank with the clan off course.

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Re: Clan Wars (Clan Event)

Post by larry378 on Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:59 pm

Armitaage wrote:Actually, jewelguy, I rather like the requirement of minimum cp, ensures that anyone who wants a reward actually participates. How would you feel if a guy in your clan who didn't fight one battle gets the AAA and brags to everyone how good he is, when it's not he that's good but you? I say this is a good way to stop freeloading.

I agree that a minimal individual contribution to reap group rewards is a good idea; but they didn't do a good job here.

Purely based on game mechanics; AAAs are not good. stat-wise they are inefficient compared to AAs, cost wise; they are inefficient period.

The handful of 300bp-ish AAA forms we've faced in clan wars were complete jokes.

and 3k is much to little cp for AA requirement; 1 person can do that in 5-10 minutes consistent burn EASY.

and 100k for AAA? that's just stupid.

what WOULD have made sense is say... 10k cp for a 35bp AA, and say 50k for a 50bp AA

3k for a 43bp is too cheap
100k for a AAA is just dumb


Scratch102 wrote:The matching between clans has A LOT to do with your
rank standing from the previous 1pm EST tally. We were in the
mid-200's after 1 loss and our win streak just went on and on and WHOA
all of sudden we are a top #10 clan with a low total CP figure compared
to what MANY of you are reporting. (Plus we have about 50%
participation, bleh)

Since that rank yesterday, we are getting
hammered. 2 losses by choice, and one fight we duked it out and won
(much more exciting). I am going to guess that by 1pm today we'll drop
back down out of the top 10, which is fine for us since we are not
trying for the AAA, but the difference between the competition levels is
astonishing.


Yep, what this seems to comes down to is "Scheduling Conflict Wars" rather than clan wars lol. we haven't lost a single match when our entire heavy hitter team (of FOUR PEOPLE) was there, and the 3 battles we have lost had combined cp amounts significantly less than the kind of score our heavy team outputs in the last 10 minutes of matches when all 4 are present.

I've also seen several people complain (here and elsewhere) about the timing being too USA oriented; but 7-8am is COMMUTE TIME, 12-1 is lunch or meetings, and 5-6 is COMMUTE TIME again; so these times are really tailor made for retirees and the unemployed of all nationality imo Razz



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On a related note; clan pairing IS a bit wacky. There really seems to be a few different games going on here in parallel;
the types of clans where folks are going into it with a few hundred bp each (such as ourselves),

and the kinds of clans where folks are going into it with tens of thousands.

Due to this being purely attack based; past a certain formation quality level; everyone has a 95% win ratio and it's purely about who is pumping more bp into the fight, and who actually has time to be on during the fight window (which as I said earlier is incredibly frustrating)... but it IS fair I suppose. It's just as inconvenient for the average person as it is the next.

Long term; for events such as this and others as well, A-team should consider diversifying rewards and creating ranking brackets. say three or so

one for the mega-clans like TPC, Psycho Underworld where individual potion expenditure will be in the thousands

one for mid-grade clans like ourselves and probably the majority of clans for individual expenditure in the hundreds

and lastly; but perhaps most importantly;

and one for beginners and casual players (for whom events in general are no fun at all because let's face it... spending <100ep/bp on an event as a sub lv100 player is a surefire ticket to NO significant rewards (a few soe and ally points?), and kissing that ep/bp goodbye when that ep/bp might have been all you have)

this game is not fun for low level players. and you want to entertain and hook the new players if you want to make money

call them gold, silver, and bronze league; and let people choose which they want to participate in for every given event (or have some sort of vote for clan events [where general and lts get to vote on which bracket the clan competes in]) with shorter rankings; and scaled rewards

i.e. for this event. rather than 1-10 100bp AA, 11-100 43bp AA, 101 garbage

gold league: 1-5 60bp AA (min 75kcp) , 5-50 45bp AA (min 50kcp)
silver league: 1-5 50bp AA (min 50kcp) , 5-50 35bp AA (min 20kcp)
bronze league: 1-5 40bp AA (min 20kcp), 5-50 30bp AA (min 5kcp)

now can this be abused if PU decides to dominate the silver or bronze league with zero resistance? yeah; but why would they want to?

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Re: Clan Wars (Clan Event)

Post by Event Horizon on Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:49 pm

If there were leagues.. only a few clans would ever sign up for this 'Gold' League. Who wants to go up against PU? They would have easy wins.

To improve the scoring in this event, they should either rank it by CP OR give a certain amount of points for every win and then give additional points for passing a set amount of CP (repetitive). Say you get 3 points for every win. And for every 10k CP you get 1 point added to your score. This would minimize the unfairness that this BS matching is causing.
Allow members to be kicked throughout the whole event, as long as they have under a certain amount of CP. Why should we be saddled with inactives for 2 weeks? People can leave, but they have to willingly do so...
Allow clan generals/lts to view the CP amounts that their members have. We know this is possible. Tower events show ally floors...

There are so many simple ways to improve these events that could be thought of. But it is truly a waste of time. This is A Team. They are greedy. They are incompetent. And they don't care about anyone's opinion nor are they likely to read any of this.

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Re: Clan Wars (Clan Event)

Post by Armitaage on Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:01 pm

Event Horizon wrote:
There are so many simple ways to improve these events that could be thought of. But it is truly a waste of time. This is A Team. They are greedy. They are incompetent. And they don't care about anyone's opinion nor are they likely to read any of this.

I agree that they are greedy and incompetent and that they just don't care, but the fact that we have a first true war style event, even if badly executed, shows that they ARE reading some of the "suggestion" threads here. I KNOW I put up a similar idea for wars on this forum in one suggestion thread, though I wasn't talking about making it an event. So too is relica similar to an idea put forth by Jessie. Oh, they're reading, they're just taking their sweet àss time.

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Re: Clan Wars (Clan Event)

Post by larry378 on Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:14 pm

Event Horizon wrote:If there were leagues.. only a few clans would ever sign up for this 'Gold' League. Who wants to go up against PU? They would have easy wins.

To improve the scoring in this event, they should either rank it by CP OR give a certain amount of points for every win and then give additional points for passing a set amount of CP (repetitive). Say you get 3 points for every win. And for every 10k CP you get 1 point added to your score. This would minimize the unfairness that this BS matching is causing.
Allow members to be kicked throughout the whole event, as long as they have under a certain amount of CP. Why should we be saddled with inactives for 2 weeks? People can leave, but they have to willingly do so...
Allow clan generals/lts to view the CP amounts that their members have. We know this is possible. Tower events show ally floors...

There are so many simple ways to improve these events that could be thought of. But it is truly a waste of time. This is A Team. They are greedy. They are incompetent. And they don't care about anyone's opinion nor are they likely to read any of this.

well the problem with the 10kcp = +1 score is that all you need is one big spender to carry an entire team. in other words; if ailarius makes a clan with nobody else in it; he'll win.

which from A-Team's perspective is great frankly. but from a player's perspective not really. The competition might as well be a single drop down menu where you trade ep or bp directly for points; so whoever has the most points at the end wins, or cut out the middleman entirely and have an event where who can buy the most soul points in a week wins.

The kick/join restrictions are straight up retarded. I cannot even begin to understand the rationale behind that.

There should definitely be general and lt abilities to view member cp. manual "activity checking" is an incredibly stupid thing to have to do when all the information is right there in the game but they refuse to show it to us.

I still think leagues are a good idea; either that or a major restructure of event rewards; frankly subAA rewards in this and any other event are practically adding insult to injury. and there is absolutely no incentive to participate in events unless you have hundreds of ep/bp and a sufficiently high level energy/bp reservoir. And this can really benefit the players as well as line A-Team pockets.

There are two kinds of people who play events; paying customers, and aggressive traders who have stockpiled resources to rival that of paying customers. Brand new players, and casual players are neither, and there is no reason (short of maybe their first event where they didn't know how the game works) to spend a single potion because the cost threshold for any tangible return is far too high.

Paying customers are already in the bag. the kind of people who play events competitively and don't buy soul points are not going to buy soul points; they're in it for the satisfaction of beating paying customers without shelling out for pixels.

New and casual players are standing on the sidelines dumbfounded as this happens. They are the untapped resource; the potential paying customers. and you really have to follow the crack dealer mentality here; the first time is free. If someone starts playing this game and can get some paltry medium bp AA (with a nice skill) by spending their entire cache of 20-30ep they traded for; they will want to play more; and if the next time they need 50-60ep to get the new shiny reward AA; bam foot in the door; they just might buy a few ep or bp so they can make it. If they are all just sitting on the sidelines with the knowledge that they would need 10-20x of their current resources to even scrape the bottom of the 'real' rankings (face it; the sub AA "congrats you got an SoE and 10k ally points" is worse than nothing; it's practically an insult), far fewer of them will continue to play, and the game loses potential paying customers.


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Re: Clan Wars (Clan Event)

Post by bacsiha on Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:43 pm

update
Clan : score 35, 126k CP #31 (tks god were not in top 10 anymore lol! )

Individual : 102k #110 106k #101

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Re: Clan Wars (Clan Event)

Post by Event Horizon on Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:30 pm

They already give away AAs from events.. 22-26 bp is good enough...

And so what if a few people waste a ton of bp to get their clans ranked? Let them. It isn't like 100 clans are going to want to do this. There would be little point.
Almost every single event in this game has been about who spends the most and I really don't see how it could be different. It is like saying that in future tower events, they should add a feature where you can randomly jump up 100 floors without spending a single ep. All this cause 'everyone should have a chance' and big spenders are bad.
It is better than basing the rankings on who gets the easiest to defeat clans. And then one clan might have spent a 1000 bp to get to rank 50, while another might have spent a 100bp to get to rank 40.
Making events more random and luck based is just about the worst thing they could do.

Finally, neither this event (nor their previous actions) implies that G Team is reading anything. It just means that they have noticed that A LOT of people have been losing interest and/or quitting the game and are looking to make changes. A few people said that this event could have been copied from Rage of Bahamut. I would bet that it is far easier for G Team to copy from another game than read our lowly opinions.

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Re: Clan Wars (Clan Event)

Post by larry378 on Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:29 am

Event Horizon wrote:They already give away AAs from events.. 22-26 bp is good enough...

And so what if a few people waste a ton of bp to get their clans ranked? Let them. It isn't like 100 clans are going to want to do this. There would be little point.
Almost every single event in this game has been about who spends the most and I really don't see how it could be different. It is like saying that in future tower events, they should add a feature where you can randomly jump up 100 floors without spending a single ep. All this cause 'everyone should have a chance' and big spenders are bad.
It is better than basing the rankings on who gets the easiest to defeat clans. And then one clan might have spent a 1000 bp to get to rank 50, while another might have spent a 100bp to get to rank 40.
Making events more random and luck based is just about the worst thing they could do.

Finally, neither this event (nor their previous actions) implies that G Team is reading anything. It just means that they have noticed that A LOT of people have been losing interest and/or quitting the game and are looking to make changes. A few people said that this event could have been copied from Rage of Bahamut. I would bet that it is far easier for G Team to copy from another game than read our lowly opinions.

who says we should stop big spenders?
they're good for business.

"having a chance" isn't about free love and fellowship; it's about money

who's going to make more money?



Casino A that has poker tables with 2000 buy in and nothing else?

or

Casino B with poker tables with 2000 buy in, 50 minimum bet blackjack table, and quarter slots?



the trend DS has been going with constant BP inflation of AAs, orchestrated destruction of the A market/meta-game, meaninglessly small breaks between potion heavy events etc etc... is casino A. The game simply isn't fun for new and casual players to get into. and THAT is going to hurt them in the long run. Event participation requirements are too niche. They're missing out on the biggest potential customer base to cater to the steadily increasing needs of a small group of people who will not be interested forever.

by all means you want to snag the high rollers. but you NEED the little guys too. compulsive spenders aren't born, they are carefully created; nobody (well I'm pulling this statement out of my ass; but it seems reasonable to assume) downloads dark summoner and immediately blows a grand on soul points. they have to have fun playing the game for a while; they have to think they can nickel and dime their way a little higher while under the impression they're getting ahead. that is how they can keep new players playing, that is how they can get people buying.


and if a little fun is a side effect of that; I say that's a good thing.

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Re: Clan Wars (Clan Event)

Post by ryesteve on Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:45 am

larry378 wrote:The kick/join restrictions are straight up retarded. I cannot even begin to understand the rationale behind that.
In the very first clan event, it began with no kick restriction. So, your all-star clans quickly realized that if they approached someone and said, "Hey, do you want to join Psycho Players Party Club? Do you have at least 100 ep? Congrats, you're in!". And then as soon as that person burned their 100 ep, they were booted and then the next fish was reeled in. After ATeam got enough complaints from people, they installed the kick restriction mid-event to put a stop to that b.s.

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Re: Clan Wars (Clan Event)

Post by Event Horizon on Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:42 am

I agree, Larry. But this event isn't a step in the right direction. Making it so that Clan A, with 1000k CP, ranks out of the event because they didn't get lucky enough is more likely to piss clan A off and make them all quit than it is to make Clan B, with 50k CP that ranked 40, buy items from G Team.
ryesteve wrote:
larry378 wrote:The kick/join restrictions are straight up retarded. I cannot even begin to understand the rationale behind that.
In the very first clan event, it began with no kick restriction. So, your all-star clans quickly realized that if they approached someone and said, "Hey, do you want to join Psycho Players Party Club? Do you have at least 100 ep? Congrats, you're in!". And then as soon as that person burned their 100 ep, they were booted and then the next fish was reeled in. After ATeam got enough complaints from people, they installed the kick restriction mid-event to put a stop to that b.s.
And there is a simple way to fix that without completely restricting kicking. Allow people under a certain threshold of points/cp to get kicked. Anyone above that threshold can't be. But this probably takes a little more programming. And G Team is not about to do that..

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Re: Clan Wars (Clan Event)

Post by ryesteve on Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:00 am

There's still the opportunity for nonsense. Instead of asking someone to burn their ep, you ask them to donate it to the "clan bank" for use by the high max players, and then they get kicked. But I see where you're going. If the idea is just to kick inactives, why can't that be done before the event starts?

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Re: Clan Wars (Clan Event)

Post by MoRandi on Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:24 am

ryesteve wrote:There's still the opportunity for nonsense. Instead of asking someone to burn their ep, you ask them to donate it to the "clan bank" for use by the high max players, and then they get kicked. But I see where you're going. If the idea is just to kick inactives, why can't that be done before the event starts?

In my clan, most of the people we tought they are inactive, i even discussed that with the clan general, to start asking each if they still play and/or remove them.
But, surprise, as soon the event started, many became active (we saw that on battle history from event home page during the battles), so i figured out that if theyr interest was rised up by this event, we truly saw who's active and who's not, so this is the point, hope u got it Smile

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Re: Clan Wars (Clan Event)

Post by ryesteve on Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:44 am

I think your general needs to keep better tabs on his clan if you don't know who's still playing and who's not.

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Re: Clan Wars (Clan Event)

Post by Scratch102 on Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:12 am

Having almost NO time to tap the players (trade spam etc activity check) in your clan was a big letdown on this event.

I cringe every time I see the battle going well, and the opposing team keeps hitting inactives, yet my AA+ team is never touched (guess Luffy scares people).

Overall this isn't the worst setup possible. using the 'score' to place clans then using CP to rank within that score # is fine. If you get a string of weak clans, great your score goes up. We hit #7 FFS, but that put us in a group where we hit nothing but active clans with deep pockets or whatever to have a ton of BP to burn. So we dropped.

Now we are back to a point where we can win if we fight, and we may end up in the top 100. Top 10? Never going to happen. Seriously doubt anyone who can be 'lucky' will be in the top ten at all.

The only tweak I can see, that would make this much more competitive would be to do ranking in the morning and evening of the event. 4 battles a day so 2 rankings to re-level the field.

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Re: Clan Wars (Clan Event)

Post by Imaboss1210 on Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:14 am

Any guess on top 500 cutoff? Not sure if should keep pushing

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Re: Clan Wars (Clan Event)

Post by borix on Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:28 am

What about the top 1000 cut off (individual cp ranking). I don't care about this AAA I just hope to get in the top 1000 to get the AA + an AA summon.

I was #1780 with a bit more than 8000 cp last ranking.

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Re: Clan Wars (Clan Event)

Post by JessicaMD on Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:45 am

Event Horizon wrote: But this event isn't a step in the right direction.

idk, I think this event IS a step in the right direction.

it's something new for a change at least...

by no means is this event perfect (I think we can find all of the problems with this event mentioned throughout this thread), but at least this means they're not 100% complacently settling into rehashing the same rigamarole again and again.

I just think it's nice that they are trying new things, sure every single new thing won't be good, but the fact that they are having clan wars at all means there's a better chance they might have more new events which means a chance for new nice events.


ryesteve wrote:There's still the opportunity for nonsense. Instead
of asking someone to burn their ep, you ask them to donate it to the
"clan bank" for use by the high max players, and then they get kicked.
But I see where you're going. If the idea is just to kick inactives,
why can't that be done before the event starts?

ryesteve wrote:I think your general needs to keep better tabs on his
clan if you don't know who's still playing and who's not.

our activity checks are a week-long process, we didn't have enough notice to do one... I guess if you're one of those super competitive clans which needs everyone to check in non-stop or donate or whatever it's different

But it's not completely unreasonable for someone to be inactive for a few days (when real life comes a-knocking, or they're just bored with a snooze fest event like I did not do a SINGLE battle during forgotten island 2, but I'm back for this event and I'm definitely going to individually rank) but still be playing. I guess this event does show which clans are more coordinated and serious, but we don't want to sacrifice our friendly relaxed atmosphere for the sake of ranking in the rare events that require heavy coordination.

on the other hand; we will be having a major activity check/purge as soon as this event is over. Razz

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JessicaMD

Posts : 556
Join date : 2012-09-09

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Re: Clan Wars (Clan Event)

Post by ryesteve on Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:30 pm

JessicaMD wrote:I guess if you're one of those super competitive clans which needs everyone to check in non-stop or donate or whatever it's different
Only the super-competitive clans require donations? I thought it was a standard thing. If not, it should be, since it really is the easiest way to know who's still playing. That, and level tracking.

ryesteve

Posts : 1418
Join date : 2012-05-25

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Re: Clan Wars (Clan Event)

Post by ryesteve on Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:37 pm

Scratch102 wrote:Overall this isn't the worst setup possible. using the 'score' to place clans then using CP to rank within that score # is fine
What's not fine is the way the matchups are being done. There's no way a clan with 150k cp should be anywhere near the top 50. Cripes, there are some clans who can do that in half an hour who aren't even in the top 100. If you're going to do a clan event, the final leaderboard should actually come close to replicating clan strength. Except for PU being on top, the rest is going to be a crap shoot dependent upon whatever this screwy matching system was.

ryesteve

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Re: Clan Wars (Clan Event)

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