The Complete Idiot's Guide to AA wyrms (I NEED HELP WITH MY FORMATION!)

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The Complete Idiot's Guide to AA wyrms (I NEED HELP WITH MY FORMATION!)

Post by larry378 on Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:01 pm

[fixed, had wrong form info up lol]

Currently running formation of:
raminas/banish/kanna/venus/neptune

planning to replace neptune.

MoonC(dea) or Ash?

I see them both costing about the sameish
MoonC+ & Dea soul ~ 140+180 = 320
Ash Reg & Grand Evo soul = 180+90 = 270

Now the thing is; I'm looking at MoonC(dea) as the better upgrade (as wingwyrms are already privy to a rather healthy offensive slant on account of wings and ded; I think increasing the defensive capabilities (dea) of the form is a more significant overall boost to effectiveness than funding diminishing returns for attack which is already sufficiently high) however; Ash has more stats, and seems to be the cheaper option; not to mention he would make a great formation leader.

I DO plan to eventually get both; I'm just wondering which one would be the superior value purchase for my formation at this point in time



TLDR VERSION:

Have:
Raminas/Banish/Kanna/Venus/neptune

Upgrade to:

Form A
Raminas/Banish/MoonC(DEA)/Kanna/venus

or

Form B
Ash/Raminas/Banish/Kanna/venus




thoughts? suggestions?

any and all input will be appreciated!





ORIGINAL POST:
Spoiler:

Presently I have:

banish/kanna/venus/mld/lind
65/55/62/114bp

I also have enough spare ep to get a moonc+ OR raminas reg, but NOT BOTH!

I'm wondering which would be the more significant upgrade for my formation. The way I see it...

~ MoonC+ ~

Pros:

1. I can get afford the + straight up, and upgrade my standard formation.

banish/MoonC/kanna/mld/lind
73/58/65/131

2. I can do a sin wingwyrm 4AA/A combo once I have moonc, useful for attacking people without agility, AND dragonwall style bosses where you don't need agi

banish/MoonC/kanna/venus/mld
84/71/71/128

3. will be my 5th AA wyrm (I also have a neptune I am not currently
using) so I can use the AA wingwyrm combo vs bosses n stuff in future
mobius events.

banish/MoonC/Kanna/venus/neptune
88/75/73/119

Cons:

1. crit. 'nuff said. MoonC is just a fat dragon of venus. stat increase, no significant across the board changes due to skill

2. bp inflation for slight stat increase without adding a skill or something (e.g. ash would be bp inflation WITH adding a skill)


~ Raminas reg ~

Pros:

1. I can finally go 4AA/A and phase out mld who I was hanging onto because I really need ipd. Lets me upgrade team to

banish+/kanna+/venus+/raminas reg/lind+
68/57/67/129

2. I can evolve him later once I get a grand evo soul from event (talked to some people who have done the math, and apparently it should be feasible with my energy reserve and # of myep I have) So I can eventually have...

Raminas/Banish/Kanna/Venus/Lind
?/?/?/129bp (2/2 bestiaries I checked do NOT have stats for raminas+m. they do for reg maxed, but not for +m; but it's safe to assume the stats will be better than the raminas reg version above)


Cons:

1. delayed gratification: I'm going to have to skill up raminas reg before he can be useful. that's not ridiculously expensive, but it is certainly a greater than trivial impediment

2. delayed gratification: this is clearly a long-term upgrade plan. having an ipd wyrm is critical to the "serious" permutations of AA wyrm forms. the instantaneous rewards of this path are going to require time and ep investment to realize, and will still not really be all that impressive until evolved and maxed a second time (will need to get reg to (20) to use for marginal improvement over mld, then will need to get + to (20) for long term use)

3. delayed gratification: It would be far more economical to wait to get raminas after I get my grand evo soul at event end; price for raminas will probably have dropped even more too! but I really would like some tangible upgrade for my form asap.





I plan to add both raminas and moonc to the roster eventually, and my endgame plan is presently: ash/raminas/banish/moonc/lind (with ash being the final purchase since a little more attack isn't really going to make the biggest noticeable difference; I consider it a finishing touch; also subject to change if A-team ever decides to release more wyrms lol). I would just like to know which one would be a bigger improvement to get first.




thoughts? suggestions?

any and all input will be appreciated!


Last edited by larry378 on Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:52 pm; edited 4 times in total

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Re: The Complete Idiot's Guide to AA wyrms (I NEED HELP WITH MY FORMATION!)

Post by TigerStrike on Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:59 pm

Why not go with Ash first? It will instantly make your team stronger and looks really cool as your leader.

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Re: The Complete Idiot's Guide to AA wyrms (I NEED HELP WITH MY FORMATION!)

Post by larry378 on Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:02 pm

TigerStrike wrote:Why not go with Ash first? It will instantly make your team stronger and looks really cool as your leader.

well, price vs improvement.

this team already has pretty healthy attack (wings & ded), I'm looking at fixing the low stats of certain members: the two lowest being mld (who I cannot replace without raminas, because ipd is critical) and venus (who is just weak in general, and I aim to replace with moonc eventually). Lind gets a freepass for being a winged agi wyrm, no scratch that the ONLY winged agi wyrm; and until AA healthup wingwyrm comes out, I'm fairly sure that agi is a MUST for wyrms

I think ash/venus replacement for ash/banish/kanna/mld/lind would be an extremely nominal improvement to overall effectiveness; at the greatest possible cost of all 3 eventual upgrade items: ash more expensive than raminas more expensive than moonc

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Re: The Complete Idiot's Guide to AA wyrms (I NEED HELP WITH MY FORMATION!)

Post by TigerStrike on Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:57 pm

I would do Raminas. He has very good stats and a useful skill. Leveling the skill is not that difficult since IPD is a cheap skill to get. Skip upgrading reg. Don't waste your time if you don't have too but instead plus it. Leveling reg skill to 20 is a waste.

Plus max stats: 13800 atk, 15180 def, 13800 hp

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Re: The Complete Idiot's Guide to AA wyrms (I NEED HELP WITH MY FORMATION!)

Post by larry378 on Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:11 pm

TigerStrike wrote:I would do Raminas. He has very good stats and a useful skill. Leveling the skill is not that difficult since IPD is a cheap skill to get. Skip upgrading reg. Don't waste your time if you don't have too but instead plus it. Leveling reg skill to 20 is a waste.

Plus max stats: 13800 atk, 15180 def, 13800 hp

haha yeah, that's actually what I've started leaning towards. went from lazily cruising through this event purely on regen (had 5 sets this morning). to 71 now. Will shoot for 140 tomorrow, and grand evo day after that and buy raminas to plus directly.

I think the fact that a grand evo is SO easily accessible at this particular moment in time kind of trumps any point of the moonsea path. I mean sure, I'll have to get one eventually and all but If I can spend the same TRADABLE ep and get raminas and also get a grand evo with just myep/bp... why not?

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Re: The Complete Idiot's Guide to AA wyrms (I NEED HELP WITH MY FORMATION!)

Post by larry378 on Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:53 pm

bump new question

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Re: The Complete Idiot's Guide to AA wyrms (I NEED HELP WITH MY FORMATION!)

Post by Scratch102 on Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:56 am

No idea if this is correct, but I put them in the Max Party Calc:

Current
Raminas/Banish/Kanna/Venus/Lind

48k / 45k / 43k - 123bp

Form A
Raminas/Banish/MoonC(DEA)/Kanna/Lind

55k / 48k / 46k - 146bp

Form B
Ash/Raminas/Banish/Kanna/Lind

56k / 50k / 62k - 153bp

For kicks:
Ash/Raminas/Banish/Kanna/Venus

68k / 62k / 68k - 149bp



Overall I would lean towards Form B, since you are sticking with Lind for the strike first AGI option (subsequently beaten by anyone smart enough to do a probe attack / remember you have AGI on defense) you'd want more attack from IPA to take out as many of the attacking team as possible. That just seems to make logical sense. I could be 100% wrong though.

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Re: The Complete Idiot's Guide to AA wyrms (I NEED HELP WITH MY FORMATION!)

Post by Horg on Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:03 pm

come on larry, how many times do you have to post the same thread? I thought we already took care of this?

You don't NEED DEA, I know you have some strange obsession with the 4 base skills (IPA/DED/IPD/DEA) but you can live without them. Get a moonsea+ and use the crit skill, I also wouldn't recommend ever skill changing him since you will just be throwing the EP from the soul down the toilet.

Moonsea(Crit)+ -> Ash Bahumut(IPA)+

Drop the lind, big boys with AA teams don't need agility, it's not worth losing both the level and rarity combos.

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Re: The Complete Idiot's Guide to AA wyrms (I NEED HELP WITH MY FORMATION!)

Post by B$ on Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:18 pm

I'm looking for a ash+ at the moment.

I'll be running
Vanity/Ash/Dod/Wingarm/ and Moonsea probably
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Re: The Complete Idiot's Guide to AA wyrms (I NEED HELP WITH MY FORMATION!)

Post by larry378 on Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:27 pm

Thank you all for the responses!

For some reason I failed to properly update the first thread after I got raminas.

I am currently running Rammy/Banish/Kanna/Venus/Neptune 87/77/72 (already dropped lind a few days ago after testing vs some 20agi A and AA hybrid teams and realizing I could do fine with the 4x combo same as agility, and the additional stats were a decisive improvement vs AA agilityless teams which I had trouble with in the past)

Scratch, something is very wrong with the party calculator...

raminas/banish/kanna/venus/lind
is 73/62/70


I looked at it a few days ago when I was deciding raminas/moonc and raminas max stats are missing from calcs so ya can't really compute teams with him it em.





Haha horg, I didn't forget what you said; and although I failed to explain it in the prompt, I AM using 5AA now as per your suggestion, and it really works better than AA/A(agi) as far as I've seen; "top" A teams (psy demon/brute, cov beast) DO first strike, but raminas/banish/kanna clean em up while soaking up tons of hits, and venus and neptune are an effective round 1 buffer after ipd, and combo defense. Same story with AA/A(agi) hybrid teams I tested against before making the switch to all AA. Also I can now tackle 5AA teams which my old hybrid had trouble with for lack of attack.

My "obsession" with base skills (which is actually a very good way to put it Razz) is due to wyrms lack of healthup. so I'm trying to load up on as many defensive skills as possible. But if I *shouldn't skillchange moonc... might I be better off going for ash and adding a skill (ipa) to the formation in general?

One additional gripe I have with moonsea is that he is disastrously overpriced for what he is. Either that or everyone I've seen selling one is an asshole.

Anyways could I get a no-strings attached price check on moonsea reg and +? 100% of the people I've seen in rank were trying to push theirs on me asking 80-ish/reg and 200/+ms or something. Or is moonsea really worth more than banished (who I see around for 60/reg now, lol I bought mine when they were 140/reg damn market) ?


even sans dea soul (which I guess... I can relegate to long term upgrade plan) I'm still undecided between ash and moonc

Moonc will be cheaper yes. but Ash is SIGNIFICANTLY superior to moonc(reg skill)



would really appreciate an accurate pc on moonc. bc if it really is how much those ppl said, I kinda don't want to get one almost on principal lol.


Thank you all for the help!

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