Psycho Wyrm formation idea (will it work?)

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Psycho Wyrm formation idea (will it work?)

Post by JessicaMD on Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:50 pm

sooo... I'm in tyranny and I was wondering about a potential new team to work towards

Short Version at Bottom!



Leader: Gorger
w/ Neptune, Fire&Ice, Lind, Mesh

or

Leader: Gorger
w/ Neptune, Fire&Ice, Lind, MLD


would either of these teams be any good?

they should be 2x combo winged wyrm with DED, IPA, Agi, and IPD or DEA

My boyfriend does banished, omni-kanna, venus, mld, lind which is 2x combo with DED, IPD, Agi and that seems to work pretty well for him.
would having two AA wyrms and an additional skill (4 skills) offset the difference between having three AA wyrms with one less skill (3 skills?)

could anybody advise on this matter?

also would it be a good idea to maybe consider roto for the team somewhere? I know he doesn't have wings, but I think he may be one of the cheapest non-DED AA wyrms around, and psycho too so guild bonus is taken into account.


I feel like I'm rambling Razz

Short Version:

Leader: Gorger
w/ Neptune, Fire&Ice, Lind, (Mesh or MLD)

yea or nay (and why!)

and

Leader: Roto
w/ Neptune, Gorger, (Fire&Ice or Mesh or MLD), Lind

yea or nay (and why!)


thank you!

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Re: Psycho Wyrm formation idea (will it work?)

Post by JessicaMD on Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:43 am

someone have some input on this?

55 views... surely someone has an opinion or something

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Re: Psycho Wyrm formation idea (will it work?)

Post by Horg on Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:10 pm

Depends on what you want this team to beat; it will definitely win on offense against most A+ teams, it can win on offense against decent AA+ teams, but you will get trounced by a good AA+ team with health-up.

On defense you are going to see a high loss rate, assuming you are level 80+ and not fighting the great horned warrior teams anymore.

Team definitely isn't optimal, but who cares, if you like it then use it because battling means jack-squat right now.
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Re: Psycho Wyrm formation idea (will it work?)

Post by TigerStrike on Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:18 pm

I have a Winged Tyranny team with one AA+ and four A+.

Taroth+ DEA
WWSP+ IPD
Silvery Goddess Queen+ IPA
WWE+ Agility
Tiamut+ DED
Total 89 bp.

I'm trying to maximize my EP versus my BP so I want a 90 bp team. When I attack people, I notice that having the skill maxed with many complimentary skills help. The only team I've really lost to are 5/4 AA+ team with maxed skills. I can't compete with those since they are 150+ bp.

If I was to build a team, I would prefer to use a team with more skills and more combo.

I saw what you had and put those into the Visual Bestiary by Horg.

I found two wyrm teams that I like with some modifications.

Leader: Roto
Gorger, Fire&Ice, MLD, Lind
Team with 4 skills and 1 combo. I consider Mystic Down a skill that is not useful since we don't see a whole lot of teams based on mystic monsters.

Second team I liked
Leader: Omni Dragon, Kanna
Gorger, Fire&Ice, MLD, Lind
Team with 4 skills and 2 combo. This team has a stronger attack but is weaker in defense and health. It is only 124 bp vs 140 bp.

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Re: Psycho Wyrm formation idea (will it work?)

Post by JessicaMD on Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:52 pm

Horg wrote:Depends on what you want this team to beat; it will definitely win on offense against most A+ teams, it can win on offense against decent AA+ teams, but you will get trounced by a good AA+ team with health-up.

On defense you are going to see a high loss rate, assuming you are level 80+ and not fighting the great horned warrior teams anymore.

Team definitely isn't optimal, but who cares, if you like it then use it because battling means jack-squat right now.

I understand it isn't an optimal team, I was mainly wondering if there were any slight tweaks to squeeze the most effectiveness out of a team built around gorger and neptune without breaking the bank (like yeah, I would love to get a raminas, and skill-change a roto but that's wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy beyond my budget).

If it'll beat most A teams, that sounds good to me Razz




TigerStrike wrote:I have a Winged Tyranny team with one AA+ and four A+.

Taroth+ DEA
WWSP+ IPD
Silvery Goddess Queen+ IPA
WWE+ Agility
Tiamut+ DED
Total 89 bp.

I'm trying to maximize my EP versus my BP so I want a 90 bp team. When I attack people, I notice that having the skill maxed with many complimentary skills help. The only team I've really lost to are 5/4 AA+ team with maxed skills. I can't compete with those since they are 150+ bp.

If I was to build a team, I would prefer to use a team with more skills and more combo.

I saw what you had and put those into the Visual Bestiary by Horg.

I found two wyrm teams that I like with some modifications.

Leader: Roto
Gorger, Fire&Ice, MLD, Lind
Team with 4 skills and 1 combo. I consider Mystic Down a skill that is not useful since we don't see a whole lot of teams based on mystic monsters.

Second team I liked
Leader: Omni Dragon, Kanna
Gorger, Fire&Ice, MLD, Lind
Team with 4 skills and 2 combo. This team has a stronger attack but is weaker in defense and health. It is only 124 bp vs 140 bp.

I see what you're saying, but I was really hoping I could build something around gorger OR roto, maybe both in the future, but getting both off the bat, or an omni kanna seems out of my price-range.

I do see what you mean by using MLD; that makes a lot of sense in hindsight since psycho AA wyrms are characterized by pretty high defense.

Incidentally, why is the second team led by Kanna rather than Gorger? doesn't gorger have significantly higher defense and only marginally lower health?
also as a tyranny player, I think I can use neptune instead, since neptune also has huge defense (and I have access to an unused neptune+m when I need it), I guess Kanna would be marginally better, but I think neptune makes a lot more sense cost/return-wise.

So... at the moment, I'm leaning towards
Leader: Gorger
Neptune, Fire&Ice, MLD, Lind



Thank you both for the input!

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Re: Psycho Wyrm formation idea (will it work?)

Post by TigerStrike on Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:02 pm

Kanna has a higher health than Gorger so you would get a health bonus around 1000 if he was the leader. You want your leader to be the monster with the highest health because you get a health bonus for it.

I would build around Gorger instead of Roto since it is a winged wyrm which allows you more possibilities in the future and has a skill that is useful.

I think what you are leaning toward would be a good team and you have more possibilities to build off of that in the future. You could replace Netune with Kanna or Roto or something new in the future and improve your team without breaking the bank.

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Re: Psycho Wyrm formation idea (will it work?)

Post by JessicaMD on Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:11 pm

TigerStrike wrote:Kanna has a higher health than Gorger so you would get a health bonus around 1000 if he was the leader. You want your leader to be the monster with the highest health because you get a health bonus for it.

I don't think you can just go PURELY off of health, the double health is good and all but defense should be considered too right?

I mean a

1 def 100 health monster as leader

is worse than a

50 def 95 health monster as leader

right?

It's not AS pronounced between gorger and kanna but as leader...

Gorger: D/H (gets 5.5% for in-guild)
15951/21268

Kanna: D/H (no 5.5%)
8820/23520

kanna has 7131 less defense, and 2252 more health

that really makes me feel like gorger is a clearly better leader, also gorger has 4k more attack, so I would want gorger to stay alive longer if possible

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Re: Psycho Wyrm formation idea (will it work?)

Post by Horg on Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:33 pm

You most definitely do NOT put your highest HP in your lead slot. You put whatever monster you want to be attacked last in that slot; since 99.99% of players use the 'Attack lowest HP First' battle logic, you work it so your most powerful attack monster is the last one alive.

As for tweaks to your team, I would not ever consider Roto for your wyrm team, if it doesn't have wings don't use it. I wouldn't use Neptune unless you skill change it, if it's skill-less I would use mesh. The 16 BP AA+ wyrms have good stats compared to A+ but still don't have the bang to outweigh the lack of skill.

Really, the only quality hybrid rarity wyrm team is for rancor, which is what I used to run pre-vanity, DoD+ (IPD) Wingarm+ (DED) Terra+ (DEA) Sky+ (IPA) Lind+ (Agil). Only ever lost to elite AA+ teams with max Health Up.
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Re: Psycho Wyrm formation idea (will it work?)

Post by TigerStrike on Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:54 pm

I see what you are saying. With Gorger, you have a higher chance of survivability compared to Kanna since his defense will not make up against his health. In that case, Gorger should definitely be your leader.

Didn't notice that. Thanks for the explanation.

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Re: Psycho Wyrm formation idea (will it work?)

Post by Patchouli on Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:45 am

Agree with horg about Neptune. You'll always want to be thinking about the skills on your team and work around that. Also another thing concerning mld is that you'll only get 15% net gain due to losing psycho combo. Also for every non tyr you equip you miss out on the passive and achievement bonuses (10.5%). Those apply across the board which is pretty significant because there aren't many ways to boost health.

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Re: Psycho Wyrm formation idea (will it work?)

Post by KrystaK on Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:28 am

Jessica the nice thing for tyranny is we have alot of options. I am guessing you have the team still in your sig you can build around that quite well.

Winged really is the best way to build around for psycho if you want an all around good team. About the only skill in AA you cannot get naturally in AA is ipa. There is 2 winged DEA, 1 winged ipd, 1 winged possibly 2 winged DED, (( i am not sure on the ded mystic if winged or not but is rare as anything)) 1 winged health, 1 winged imp down and 1 covert down. Also have 2 great monsters in chi (( who is soo underrated modded ))and chim that can be modded.

If i was you i would take your form replace weaver with taroth and inos with GGD. Then Put fire and ice in for iris and go from there. You would still have guild and winged combo. And would be easier to move up eventually replace wwsp with ramias and go from there. It also allows you at a later time to move maybe full wyrm full winged or some other combo and that way you are not fully committed if things change.

The one nice thing about winged if you use best in slot you have 3 out 5 monsters immue to any species down. Chi Ramias and GGD are all winged and immune, and every other monster the skills are spread over a demon, mystic, and 2 brutes. So really species down wont be devastating to you in any form. Also Ramias is by far and away the best tank a great combo of health defense and still good attack. Just my 2 cents.

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Re: Psycho Wyrm formation idea (will it work?)

Post by JessicaMD on Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:06 pm

KrystaK wrote:Jessica the nice thing for tyranny is we have alot of options. I am guessing you have the team still in your sig you can build around that quite well.

Winged really is the best way to build around for psycho if you want an all around good team. About the only skill in AA you cannot get naturally in AA is ipa. There is 2 winged DEA, 1 winged ipd, 1 winged possibly 2 winged DED, (( i am not sure on the ded mystic if winged or not but is rare as anything)) 1 winged health, 1 winged imp down and 1 covert down. Also have 2 great monsters in chi (( who is soo underrated modded ))and chim that can be modded.

If i was you i would take your form replace weaver with taroth and inos with GGD. Then Put fire and ice in for iris and go from there. You would still have guild and winged combo. And would be easier to move up eventually replace wwsp with ramias and go from there. It also allows you at a later time to move maybe full wyrm full winged or some other combo and that way you are not fully committed if things change.

The one nice thing about winged if you use best in slot you have 3 out 5 monsters immue to any species down. Chi Ramias and GGD are all winged and immune, and every other monster the skills are spread over a demon, mystic, and 2 brutes. So really species down wont be devastating to you in any form. Also Ramias is by far and away the best tank a great combo of health defense and still good attack. Just my 2 cents.

I didn't think of doing a species-less winged combo... that sounds interesting!

So... something along the lines of: GGD, Taroth, Fire&Ice, WWSP, WWE?

I guess since we're off pure wyrms for now, how do pure brutes work for psycho AA?

I think dragonoid is still insanely expensive, but are the others somewhat cheaper now? and is that team any good? like tlon?


thank you everyone for the help. By the way, I'm just looking for a next "goal". I really don't have the ep to get any of these right now, but saving up for a pair like Taroth and GGD is feasible for me, rather than saving up for a crimson dragonoid or raminas or something Razz Just looking for a formation that can consistently beat any A formations. And hopefully the formation would have some monsters which could one day be part of a really bad ass AA team, but it doesn't need to be optimal now.

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Re: Psycho Wyrm formation idea (will it work?)

Post by KrystaK on Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:06 pm

Well both health options are very expensive for psycho the only really cheap option is a cross guild creation team with Adan.( I do not recommend mixed crawlers because you have to take igniti right now and he is psycho down and you loose some as 4 of the 5 are not pyscho)) So really no matter what to get into the "end game" of aa's you need either Isaac or Crimson both of which are very very expensive.

Brutes as a team are ok they are needed to be modded very much you have 2 dea, a demon down, a psycho down, a brute down , a covert down and IPA. Also a few of them can get very expensive. Although works very well with our AAA as she is winged brute and Tlon, Gala, crimson, ast are also winged. And looks also like our second AAA is winged demon.

Ramias will also fade, all summon able AA's do he is just still very high right now but He has gone from 1200 for a AA+ 20 to now 650-700ish. As more of him get onto the market the lower his price will go.

Right now though creation team is kinda nice for us Holy and adan are the only 2 decent non psycho aa's and the new viper that was just released is a very nice aa along with Nyar and use either a modded devoid or chimera. You could for cheap pick up a DBE, An adan and a nyar and match them with the psycho agi and the new prog is DED to give you a start. You have lots of options to get you going just the best thing to do is make a plan but be ready to be flexible.

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